Vermont moves closer to universal health care ‎

FngrBANG said:
What? :jawdrop::jawdrop:

privileges != entitlement

You can dress it up in semantics all day long but there is NO WAY you're going to convince me that your idea of universal healthcare isn't just another entitlement program in sheep's clothing
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I'm fine with calling it an entitlement if that makes you feel better. Then the question becomes what makes this entitlement any worse than having a fire department, police force, military entitlement? Where does Fngr draw the line on entitlement programs?
 
ZOD said:
The Libertarian ideology answer to that is to not pay for them at all via the government but rather charity and to allow Hospitals etc. to refuse service to those who cannot pay. If some or all die in the streets, that's their problem.
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and this is bad why?
 
ZOD said:
The Libertarian ideology answer to that is to not pay for them at all via the government but rather charity and to allow Hospitals etc. to refuse service to those who cannot pay. If some or all die in the streets, that's their problem.
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I agree with these sentiments. It is pretty unfortunate that it is not really feasible.
 
Eidelon said:
and this is bad why?
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I'm not making any judgments, merely stating the Libertarian viewpoint.

Suffice it to say, that view will never become a reality.

So your options are, keep what we had prior to the recently passed health care laws, the new system about to take affect or medicare for all. You have to pick one, because that is all you're going to have the option of choosing from.
 
BlueSoxSWJ said:
I have certainly had better experiences with (albeit minor) illnesses in Europe than I have in the United States, where I have to jump through so many bureaucratic hoops just to get an antibiotic prescription when I get something like strep. When my dad needed to get a CPAP machine a few years ago, it took him over a year to get through all of the specialist verification processes required by his insurance company before they'd pay for it. That's over a year of withheld treatment after being medically diagnosed with a condition that kills a couple thousand Americans every year. And we're worried about the government getting between us and our doctor?
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Well, I suppose my anecdotes are as valid as yours. For ear infections and strep, we go to the Target clinic. Longest we've had to wait to get in is 15 minutes - usually it's immediate opening. If the quick strep test is positive, we walk out with our prescription.

I have a CPAP as well. I went in for my sleep study and walked out with a CPAP machine.

Sorry that you have had bad experiences, but they are not necessarily indicative of the state of health care in the US.
 
When it's 600 dollars to go to the hospital for severe food poisoning, 320 dollars for a doctor to sign a script, and 13 dollars for the generic pills to cure it, yeah Id say we're doing something wrong.
 
telos said:
we're doing something wrong is all I have to say.

Health care system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia cross country comparison
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It's called corporatism. And giving more power to the government does nothing because they're already owned by corporations.

Someone here can feel free to explain to me how forcing everyone to have healthcare insurance somehow benefits everyone (when the poor will get it for free anyway, now even more-so, and it doesn't address illegals getting free healthcare at the ER).
 
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Do prisoners have to pay for medical treatment in jail? That's like socialized health care, and it kills two birds with one stone.. what the hell are poor people doing not in jail, anyway?
 
ZOD said:
I'm fine with calling it an entitlement if that makes you feel better. Then the question becomes what makes this entitlement any worse than having a fire department, police force, military entitlement?
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Excuse me. But haven't you exceeded your gov't mandated number of caloric intake for the day? Well we're just going to have to tax you for that.

What? You missed two gov't assigned exercise sessions this week? Again, tax!

Wait, we notice that you chose to work at a windmill farm. There's a high degree of injuries associated with that profession. You'll either have to change jobs or we're going to cap the number of claims you can file per year.


Owait, I see that you have cancer. Well you're of no use to us. We are suspending all but your hospice care.

Long live the progressive collective.
 
yes, yes. It couldn't possibly happen :rolleyes:

No way anyone would allow their freeduhmz to be infringed upon to such a degree or anything
 
No more questions, Rayn. Please enjoy the freedom to be able to not afford your current healthcare bills.

-Healthy Canadian. (Thanks OHIP)
 
FngrBANG said:
Excuse me. But haven't you exceeded your gov't mandated number of caloric intake for the day? Well we're just going to have to tax you for that.

What? You missed two gov't assigned exercise sessions this week? Again, tax!

Wait, we notice that you chose to work at a windmill farm. There's a high degree of injuries associated with that profession. You'll either have to change jobs or we're going to cap the number of claims you can file per year.


Owait, I see that you have cancer. Well you're of no use to us. We are suspending all but your hospice care.

Long live the progressive collective.
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i love fngr

the first two have not been seriously discussed anywhere outside of san fransisco

that's actually a conservative standpoint, believing people who work dangerous jobs should have to deal with the consequences of it rather than having the nation insure them.

that's how the former system was (still is I think for 2 years) for those who are poor, and will not be under the new system but you get tons of wrong information so no surprise. former system = conservative

so basically fngr is a liberal? surprise surprise
 
A few more months of unemployment and I can get my Obamacare! You don't know what a relief it is to know that for the low, low price of only $500/month, I going to be freeloading off you Megabuck Stunnaz.
 
FngrBANG said:
Owait, I see that you have cancer. Well you're of no use to us. We are suspending all but your hospice care.

Long live the progressive collective.
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Totally! Do you want a faceless bureaucrat with no personal interest making that kind of decision? Or an insurance executive who actually gets paid to deny you care?

Seems obvious, let the market decide.
 
Swensonator said:
Things change. It wasnt an inalienable right to vote for all citizens 200 years ago. We're not where we're at today because our concepts of fundamental rights havent changed at all since the founding of this country. 10, 50, or 100 years in the future health care may be as much as an inalienable right to us as the right to carry firearms.
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Except for the pesky notion of enumerated federal powers. Not to say that anyone has cared for almost a century, but it's been there from the beginning.

If states want to provide free healthcare and ice cream, more power to them.
 
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