HOw about no one kill weapons in T:V

I think the CONCEPT of a gun like the ELF is pretty important in Tribes, even if it wasn't very successful/popular in Tribes 2. The game is all about speed and freedom of movement. So this is the gun that fucks up your movement. It's not like it also drains your life (at a significant rate... unless it's a turret).

The shocklance IMO is essential. I dunno why anyone has a problem with it... it takes skill to use. Although the damage should be cut in half, and its 'push' made more pronounced, i.e. mention that this weapon is DESIGNED to throw players off course. And it's what, the only melee weapon? It does its job well.
 
Let's see what makes a melee weapon in any other game:

Knifes... You get in contact with the enemy, and your player strikes them. No aiming ahead.

Swords... you get in contact with the enemy, and the sword strikes them. No aiming ahead.

Fists... you get in contact with the enemy, and the fist strikes them. No aiming ahead.

Clubs/flails/maces... you get in contact with the enemy, and the weapon hits them. No aiming ahead.

Shocklance... you fire a ranged attack that fizzles without a connecting target. It requires aiming ahead, and a bolt jumps over quite a range to hit the enemy. Contact is not required.

OH WOW LOOK WHICH ONE COULD BE THE ODD MAN OUT EXO? I mean, just cause the llama eats grass (the shocklance has a somewhat short range) we should include it in the same genus as all the different breeds of cows, am i rite? :rolleyes:

The shocklance may be short ranged, but it easy to see why it isn't a melee weapon. By the loose definition required to call the shocklance melee, I could call many game shotguns melee.
 
I find those charts a little confusing. I understand your final point, however, and I dont completely agree with your reasoning.

The main problem I have with your point is this:
Remote weapons become balanced and fun at close ranges as long as they can't be used very quickly. Mostly used as a catch for O that manages to filter through the D towards the objective. As a weapon, they are preventable after the first run: you simply shoot and destroy it the second time through with some high explosives.
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By that same logic, satchel packs could be balanced in CTF. You say that it is to stop the people that "filter through", but in reality you should say "break through". Thats like saying that a satchel on the flag is balanced because it can pick off the cappers that "filter through" the LD.

Either way its a panacea for a weak defensive scheme which newbifies the game. You have a point by saying that objective based games are more offensively based, but that doesnt change the basics of gameplay.

By any account, all the satchel will do is slow down the game by making defenses more powerful and award the team who abuses its power in the best and most creative ways.

Furthermore, you have to look at the fun factor when evaluating a weapon. Hearing "beep beep beep" then being blown to smitherines by a guy you dont even see is not fun at all. The person who hits the button may not even be around to see the satisfaction of his work. So, I'd give this weapon about a +3/-9 on the fun factor scale...Its even worse than the shocklance because you dont have to get close to your enemy. You just drop it and let it go when someone is within half a mile.
 
You seem to be under the impression that melee weapons are something that you hit someone over the head with. Melee combat is merely combat with weapons intended for use at close range.

Look at all your other "prediction" weapons. Notice they are all projectiles. For all practical purposes, the shocklance is NOT a projectile. There is no delay. If you have it aimed correctly (i.e., yes you still need to predict), the damage is instant.
 
I'll have to fall back on the fact that satchels have changed Siege maps that last a mere four minutes into games that last upwards of ten. When the objectives don't move and can't defend themselves, you need a tough defense to prevent static objective maps from being rushed to a crushing finish in a mere 45 seconds.

When the point of Siege, Assault and DnD is blowing up gens, you find that the O is EXTREMELY overpowering to the D, as the O's powerbase can't be undermined, while the D's can be. Satchels, people, shield packers and grenade spam - things that would be cheesy if a CTF map was designed in such a way to make them more useful than the current popular options - are necessary to create any challenge to the O.

It's simple: D sets up D. O blows up D sooner or later, and all the D assets that give the D a chance to stop the O from ignoring them and heading to the gen.

Satchels, a worthless piece of ignored and not even unbalanced pack, becomes useful when you know where you can place it to catch the rushers who filter through the layers of D. In static objective maps, there are placements galore.

In dynamic objective maps like CTF, you only have the flag stand. As we know, this always means blowing up LD at the flag and turrets/deployables around the stand. This means satchel has been relatively useless and not unbalanced at all in CTF, while being useful in Siege.

So to summarize: You can whine it does something to CTF, but you KNOW it does nothing Jawa. On the other hand, such powerful defence assets are almost necessary on a lot of maps in O vs D style gametypes. The D *must* be airtight, because just one O is needed to win, unlike in CTF.
 
I always thought of shocklance being a hitscan/melee weapon.
Also the chaingun should go in beam/spinfuser.
shocklance was gay imho.
The only weapons I see them changing are the plasma cannon to some flame type shit. Taking out of missile launcher and replacing with a new medium armor weapon. two handed guns.
 
Zoolooman said:
So to summarize: You can whine it does something to CTF, but you KNOW it does nothing Jawa. On the other hand, such powerful defence assets are almost necessary on a lot of maps in O vs D style gametypes. The D *must* be airtight, because just one O is needed to win, unlike in CTF.
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I certainly dont know anything about its use in recent times, but when I played it was an easily abused weapon. In turtle situations, or on slow maps it was vastly overpowered and quite gay because its hard to kill, easy to replace, and has the largest splash damage of any weapon.

But for offensive objective based games, I still stand by my theory that an unbalanced weapon is an unbalanced weapon. You can say all you want about how it has helped gameplay and made the games longer/better, whatever. It doesnt change the fact that the weapon is totally exploited in this format. Teams who dont use it or use it to less of an effect are at a severe disadvantage.

EDIT: An example of this was beggars run. There was no way to clear the satchel on a cap run. It was the gayest of the gay strategies. There was NO WAY to clear the flag with satchel on it and a few heavies up there deploying even more satchels when one died. It was litterally impossible.

We can hem and haw all day about the satchel and its effect on objective based games, but that doesnt change the fact that objective based games are inherently unbalanced in their current implementation. But, having a few totally imbalanced defensive weapons is NOT the way to fix this problem. The problem is more deep rooted than that, its a design flaw in the way objective based games are implemented in Tribes games. The design of the mod should be changed; imbalanced defensive weapons should not be the way by which we balance it out. This can be easily fixed by good map design, objectives for the defensive side, etc.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that T2 siege is basically just a shittily designed mod. Just because the satchel balances it out, doesnt mean thats how it should be in the future. The next siege mod should be smarter, better, and more balanced WITHOUT the addition of poorly designed weapons.
 
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exogen said:
The shocklance IMO is essential. I dunno why anyone has a problem with it...
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Every once in a while I don't need a f#$%*&g reason for something, and to me, the fact that I hate the shocklance is enough. And what the hell is up with a "melee" weapon that has a range of 30 meters?

If you don't have a problem with the shocklance, I suggest you get one, because the "Shocklance is a :ftard: weapon" band wagon is loading up!
 
1. No one used elf in T1 anyway, and it was good.
2. Shocklance was a fun weapon, but it's not for tribes.
 
Thrax Panda said:
Every once in a while I don't need a f#$%*&g reason for something, and to me, the fact that I hate the shocklance is enough. And what the hell is up with a "melee" weapon that has a range of 30 meters?

If you don't have a problem with the shocklance, I suggest you get one, because the "Shocklance is a :ftard: weapon" band wagon is loading up!
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:clap: :clap: :clap:

vab shocklance vav
 
In the Tribes 2 time period the shocklance is the melee weapon of the day. Since Vengeance takes place before then, I hope it's gone.
 
TheMaster_C said:
Hope MD doesnt count as 1-hit kill, cuz they better not remove it...
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Minediscing is a great thing if you're trying to defend a flag. But it's another if that's the only way you know how to kill. I've seen people popping up all around now throwing mines around hoping to god they're going to kill you. Half the time they miss. And I know this cause I'll be on a cap route, coming back with the flag, and I'll get hammered by a random mine. And you obviously want to keep it in cause it's your newly found way of hammering people, and you don't have any real skill.
 
MojoBlue said:
And you obviously want to keep it in cause it's your newly found way of hammering people, and you don't have any real skill.
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Actually some of the best mine discers are some of the greatest players in the game. It adds a new level to the art of the kill. Like you said, people miss a lot. You've got to place your mine on (or very close to) the person (who is most likely moving) and place your shot to set it off. Not necessarily an easy thing to do. Plus, there's the chance that you'll take yourself out too if done too closely.

Pay attention to the people who can successfully MA MD. That's an art form.
 
Yogi said:
There's nothing wrong with sniping. There's nothing wrong with elfing, unless you're refering to T2 base elfing.
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I agree. These weapons were in t1 after all, they deserve to make it to T:V. As most of us know (or maybe only I :ftard: and the person whom taught me knows), the elf can be used in order to suck up the energy from a base turret so you can go in for the kill. From that, elfing in T:V is necessary as one method for myself or who ever uses it in order to take down turrets. It's just necessary :shrug:
 
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