T:V Update - Coming December 2004

I don't know why people are still having so much trouble with grapple loopers. Early on this tactic annoied the hell outta me. Now I just see it as a free MA.

The trick is to get into a position where you can fire a disk into the arc of the loop. They will swing right into it every time (if you've got any timing). Besides that, there's always the chaingun to take 'em apart. OR you could gasp) o-snipe that turd on a string.

Still, I'm not opposed to being able to shoot out the hook. IMHO it should have about 30 health (1 dead on disk).
 
people have also learned to stand right where they are doing loop de loops, grappleCount--

its the idea that grapple is even included that they revolt against.
 
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BitRaiser said:
I don't know why people are still having so much trouble with grapple loopers. Early on this tactic annoied the hell outta me. Now I just see it as a free MA.

The trick is to get into a position where you can fire a disk into the arc of the loop. They will swing right into it every time (if you've got any timing). Besides that, there's always the chaingun to take 'em apart. OR you could gasp) o-snipe that turd on a string.

Still, I'm not opposed to being able to shoot out the hook. IMHO it should have about 30 health (1 dead on disk).
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sure, in a pub this would work. in a match with turrets and LD you don't have the time to set up in a spot for some grapple duck hunt.

1 disc would be a bit too much, because grapplers should still have the ability to use it to do routes and stuff without getting flung all over the place. I would say cut the grapple ammo to 10 and make it 60 damage, just a bit more than one disc dead on so that it takes 2 shots (second one can be via splash) to dislodge it.
 
ayzianboy said:
sure, in a pub this would work. in a match with turrets and LD you don't have the time to set up in a spot for some grapple duck hunt.
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Meh. I guess it depends on how sneaky/quick a shot you are. If yer smart, you should be able to disk into a looper from a good range while flying through the air.

1 disc would be a bit too much, because grapplers should still have the ability to use it to do routes and stuff without getting flung all over the place. I would say cut the grapple ammo to 10 and make it 60 damage, just a bit more than one disc dead on so that it takes 2 shots (second one can be via splash) to dislodge it.
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You have to think about the timing involved. If you have to hit that sucker with more than 1 disk, the grapple dude is going to be long gone before the second disk gets there. Given that it would have to be dead on, it would require a good shot to unhook someone on the fly and more likely than not, you'll end up having to hit it more than once anyway.

I don' like the idea of futzing with the ammo. It has no impact on the looping behaviour which annoies people, but does impact it's "intended" use.
 
plz go try ungrapple mutator be4 u discuss any further
it affects the grapplers intended use in a rather nasty way

instead of aiming at the hook wouldnt u rather be concerned with killing the flagcarrier?
balancing the hooks health will be an impossible task;
make it too weak the grappler becomes useless due to random fire
make it too strong the mutator will have no effect coz the required skill to hit the hook is beyond any mans reach
there is no inbetween

the answer though lies just in front of u
its tried and tested in a dozen games and even better.. its simple to adapt to because its more intuitive than the grappler is now
 
No need to get all huffy Proximus.

I personally don't like your idea much for the simple fact that I like the idea of hanging off aircraft. The single most exciting moment I've had with T:V yet was grappling an enemy bomber (that was owning the poor noob team I happen to join to) and cooking it to death with my burner. Very action movie. I also like to use it as an anchor to prevent being pushed off the flag while doing HotF.

As for it being shootable and balancing it's health, I think it's quite doable. the 1 dead on disk *sounds* right to me. Chances are if someone is using it to ajust their ski run, no one is going to be able to snap shoot the thing fast enough to impare him. If he's tarzan swinging and the hook gets blasted, he'll get a chance to re-fire and save himself. If he's doing loop-de-loops... well, he's going to get sent in a random direction (or directly into the ground). This is the behaviour that people want countered... not all the other *fun* stuff I mentioned earlier.
 
I've passed the word on to Myrmidon about adding health to the ungrapple mutator. Two chaingun bullets sound good? I think that is 8 health. It will use a little more server resources though with the health added on but I don't think it will be too bad.
 
ChickenLover said:
I've passed the word on to Myrmidon about adding health to the ungrapple mutator. Two chaingun bullets sound good? I think that is 8 health. It will use a little more server resources though with the health added on but I don't think it will be too bad.
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When playing on the virus server I never had my hook disconnect due to random fire. I mean where are you grappling to that some disc randomly finds its way to the hook. Its not like you are grappling to the ground when swinging away. I don't think its worth the extra overhead.
 
BitRaiser said:
No need to get all huffy Proximus.

I personally don't like your idea much for the simple fact that I like the idea of hanging off aircraft. The single most exciting moment I've had with T:V yet was grappling an enemy bomber (that was owning the poor noob team I happen to join to) and cooking it to death with my burner. Very action movie. I also like to use it as an anchor to prevent being pushed off the flag while doing HotF.

As for it being shootable and balancing it's health, I think it's quite doable. the 1 dead on disk *sounds* right to me. Chances are if someone is using it to ajust their ski run, no one is going to be able to snap shoot the thing fast enough to impare him. If he's tarzan swinging and the hook gets blasted, he'll get a chance to re-fire and save himself. If he's doing loop-de-loops... well, he's going to get sent in a random direction (or directly into the ground). This is the behaviour that people want countered... not all the other *fun* stuff I mentioned earlier.
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u can still switch weapons (plz read my explanation somewhere)
agreed grappling an enemy bomber to shoot it wont be as easy due to the fact u will take splashdamage
u can still do it but not with a burner i guess
anchoring as hof can still be done
but isnt this a much smaller price to pay than the random fire?
sofar ive been disconnected like 6 times NEVER intentionally its annoying and u say u can refire easy but that shows u havent experienced it

so u rather have a "bugged" grappler (coz thats how it feels) to be able to burner a bomber (which u can still chain or even better: use the blade!!)

about the health issue it will be useless if u cant shoot that hook with 1 shot but at the same time the grappler is useless/bugged/unreliable if u can shoot it with 1 shot,which most anti-grapple people wont regret i guess but if u play with grapple u like to get beaten by skill not stupidness

edit:a mortar will dislodge the anchor of a hof as well under the ungrapple mutator so that should be an argument in favor of me then
 
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mc-fine said:
When playing on the virus server I never had my hook disconnect due to random fire. I mean where are you grappling to that some disc randomly finds its way to the hook. Its not like you are grappling to the ground when swinging away. I don't think its worth the extra overhead.
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try grappling around mortars
once i tried doin a 90 degrees turn (on a custom map it was i think) and some tried to mortar me instead he hit the grapple
i lost all momentum and died coz of a chaser
now if that dude was aiming for my grapplepoint id say gg to him now i just think its stupid

this will happen more for sure when people start using the mutator more
it might not have happened alot but it happens more than the intended use of the ungrapple mutator (i have yet to see that happen)
its like u make a medicin that kills patients but SHOULD be able to cure some as well

anyway i guess every1 'likes' the idea being able to shoot it even when it doesnt do what its supposed to
people like myths
 
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Proximus said:
anyway i guess every1 'likes' the idea being able to shoot it even when it doesnt do what its supposed to
people like myths
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I don't think you know what it is supposed to do. You didn't write it. My team did. I know what it is supposed to do because we designed it. It works great for its designed purpose.

Adding health was/is going to be part of the finished product. The only reason it didn't get added in the mutator version was because of increased server resources.
 
ChickenLover said:
I don't think you know what it is supposed to do. You didn't write it. My team did. I know what it is supposed to do because we designed it. It works great for its designed purpose.

Adding health was/is going to be part of the finished product. The only reason it didn't get added in the mutator version was because of increased server resources.
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im not trying to insult u
the code is fine
its the idea behind it that isnt working
thats not your fault i guess
 
The idea is fine. It was never meant to stop spiderman swinging. That happens sometimes but that is not the mutators purpose. It was made so that people swinging around in circles with the flag can be unhooked and the chase can continue. The second purpose of it was to help kill someone when they are turtling with a heavy or shield/buckler loadout while grappled to the ceiling.

Both of those problems are solved with the mutator. The random disconnects should be solved in the mod. Possibly in the mutator if Myrmidon feels like updating it.

We like the grappler. It adds a very cool element to Tribes. We don't like how it can assist turtling though. No one likes a turtling stand still. Cappers should learn how to ski and stay alive while their team gets their flag back.
 
Proximus said:
look at other games with a grappler; they do not have the click to release feature hence hanging from a ceiling makes u reel in all the way up to the point u grapple onto and thus making u an easy target

in TV this will mean a grappler will use MORE ammo automatically coz he cant hang around, forcing him to visit an inv more often making the opportunities to kill him more frequent

problem solved
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lol no
 
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