[T:V] The sensor system
- Thread starter KineticPoet
- Start date
VaporTrail
Veteran X
Not to mention (again) that the bases are likely to be larger than your standard T1/2 base, and with the Grapple's "hangman" ability, finding a flag during a match double turtle situation can be something of a bore. You not only have find the guy, but do so in an environment that is exceedingly hostile, and communicate accurately where he is via voicecomms... and even then they probably have time enough to move the flag...
Only clanmates use voice comm on pubs. Otherwise in those situations you'd have to pay attention to ingame chat in the hopes that one of your teammates can describe the location fast enough and clearly enough to make it plain where your team needs to go to try and recover the flag.VaporTrail said:
I can just imagine the frustration of a new player on a map with a base like Scarabrae and no flag finder. I'd just play some other game.
Perm FF should be at least a mutator option that is default enabled on pubs. If you want to disable it for tourney play, fine. I don't play competitively.
If the client has the location information it doesn't matter what mode the server is in. The devs said the game wouldn't tell the client what it wasn't supposed to know which should include the flag position when the sensors are down. If the server doesn't send the information to the clients then I'd guess the best you'd be able to approximate would be the last known location of the flag, and the direction the capper was travelling.Satan- said:
ut2k4 ctf had something that showed where both flags were. But it was not a flag icon. Here is a pic.
at the top is 2 circles showing both teams flags. Around it is a little dot that changes direction depending on where the flag actually is. Note it does not show exactly where the flag is but only the general direction of it.
ut2k4 also included an arrow that would appear in the center if the flag was above or below you.
This would let noobs know where to go but they wouldnt be able to just take out their sniper rifle and shoot the flag icon.
at the top is 2 circles showing both teams flags. Around it is a little dot that changes direction depending on where the flag actually is. Note it does not show exactly where the flag is but only the general direction of it.
ut2k4 also included an arrow that would appear in the center if the flag was above or below you.
This would let noobs know where to go but they wouldnt be able to just take out their sniper rifle and shoot the flag icon.
JohnMcClane
Veteran XX
I haven't read the entire thread yet but I just want to say that it is not always really really easy to spot an enemy without an IFF above their head. Trust me on this. With the SJ pack in T2 on a really foggy map, it is extremely difficult to spot where the enemy is. I think the IFF thing should be kept like that with an SJ pack doing something like that. I agree with an idea on the first page about a reduced LOS when the sensor is down, and not having IFFs disappear completely.
I didn't read this entire thread, so if this has been said before, then you can ignore me.
First of all, I'm against the flag icon. In T2, being able to snipe across an entire map, killing a flag carrier who is up to 1000m away and not even close to being visible is complete bullshazbot. That alone is enough to take it out of TV imo. Not to mention that it takes a lot of thought out of both defense and offense, so it essentially makes the game easier, and it takes out a very important element of gameplay. I see that many people brought up the point that it helps people new to the game in pubs, which I can agree with, but I still don't think that's enough of a reason to put it in. However, if it's absolutely necessary in pubs, then at least take it out of any competition mode.
My next point is that this sensor system may be confusing, maybe even more confusing than the systems in T1 and T2, especially to newbies. I say this because it often happens that a generator is destroyed, then repaired, then destroyed, then repaired, etc. all in a very short amount of time. By making the sensor such a focal point in any situation, the same could happen to it. This of course would make iffs flash on and off quite frequently, easily confusing people who weren't sure what was happening. I'd also like to say that if having no iff is the same as having an iff, then why take them out at all? Any skilled player wouldn't hesitate to attack either one, and since this is being done to help people who don't understand sensors, it seems unreasonably simplified. My suggestion is to put IFFs in direct LOS, and in adjacent areas, but if the sensor is down then make no enemies visible on the command screen.
First of all, I'm against the flag icon. In T2, being able to snipe across an entire map, killing a flag carrier who is up to 1000m away and not even close to being visible is complete bullshazbot. That alone is enough to take it out of TV imo. Not to mention that it takes a lot of thought out of both defense and offense, so it essentially makes the game easier, and it takes out a very important element of gameplay. I see that many people brought up the point that it helps people new to the game in pubs, which I can agree with, but I still don't think that's enough of a reason to put it in. However, if it's absolutely necessary in pubs, then at least take it out of any competition mode.
My next point is that this sensor system may be confusing, maybe even more confusing than the systems in T1 and T2, especially to newbies. I say this because it often happens that a generator is destroyed, then repaired, then destroyed, then repaired, etc. all in a very short amount of time. By making the sensor such a focal point in any situation, the same could happen to it. This of course would make iffs flash on and off quite frequently, easily confusing people who weren't sure what was happening. I'd also like to say that if having no iff is the same as having an iff, then why take them out at all? Any skilled player wouldn't hesitate to attack either one, and since this is being done to help people who don't understand sensors, it seems unreasonably simplified. My suggestion is to put IFFs in direct LOS, and in adjacent areas, but if the sensor is down then make no enemies visible on the command screen.
I think the key here is the new system needs to be tried and tested. There are potential problems like how people will react to stalemates or how often the sensor stays up that simply won't manifest themselves without some serious play. I personally like the ability for the server to decide whether the flag finder is on or not, we definitely will not have it "off" on our servers heh.
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JohnMcClane
Veteran XX
This is exactly what I'm thinking. Please listen to Nordy. He knows what he is talking about. Trust me on this.Nordramor said:
Well I'm not sure how this is going to effect pub play seeing as in T1 and T2 no one really cared about taking out the sensors so It probably won't be that big of a deal.
I do agree that there should be a LOS indicator even after the sensors have been taken out, just like in T1.
Again I'll have to wait for beta to make any further comments about this.
I do agree that there should be a LOS indicator even after the sensors have been taken out, just like in T1.
Again I'll have to wait for beta to make any further comments about this.
Has no one else considered that a huge flaw in the old system (the relative pain in the ass-ness of deploying sensors) has been aided by the introduction of a separate deployabe slot? A somewhat revamped big sensor sounds alright, but I still dislike it having cross-map range. Why not make use of another feature that was so highly touted? It would add another layer of depth as well.
I would also like there to be some sort of backup for the sensors being down or a counter for them being up. Like a sensor deployable and the counter being a sensor jammer deployable, that might make things a little complicated but it adds more depth. Just throwing ideas out there. It wouldn't take any extra time to deploy because there is an extra slot for just deployables so it kind of gives Offense and Deffense something extra to do while they wait for an attack or while they are setting up for an attack.
That's what I was hoping for in terms of a flag finder. If they must have it on-screen at all times atleast they could only give that to friendly players with the enemy flag. The ability to whip out a sniper rifle and shoot an icon of a player nowhere near visible distance took alot of fun and skill out of Tribes2.Tahnit said:
Give people a hint as to where a flag carrier is hiding out, but don't show them EXACTLY where it is. It's fine to have some form of training wheels on our bikes, but atleast make us pedal on our own.
I like the idea about the sensor's status determining whether or not players will be able to view IFF's of opponents. Many people will learn to distinguish model types from each other rather than depending on red arrows, this I think will be great. I think the lack of red IFFs will help separate the aware from the unaware, and the lack of mile-long IFF arrows will definitely bring back an element of surprise - letting players come over hills unseen to clear a flag (for example) rather than being sniped just as your head crests a hill just because they had a 3" arrow over your head as you were heading up the hill.
You didn't understand what I said. Smart LD are using both the radar *and* constantly looking around. They aren't exclusive. Using both gives the best overall awareness, and if you're using both and the sensors go down you still keep a good overall awareness.
Shoddy said: