[T:V] The sensor system

Grappling the flag sounds like an extremely gay idea. I can see it being abused left and right. It could be interesting if the game were designed to only let you grapple the flag while it was in the air. Example: I have the enemy flag and am about to die. I throw the flag OR the flag gets launched from my body because I am killed and player x grapples the flag toward him while its still in the air. Player x being an friend or foe. That would be interesting to see mid-air flag returns by use of grappling hook. It would definately add another element to the way LD or LO is played and would allow people to focus on another skill

ZProtoss said:
Guessing that the grapple has a fairly long range, and flat out grappling the flag to you from a long range would in theory seem pretty abusive. Any chance to where it'd change from directly grappling into you, to grappling the flag giving it a nudge towards you, but not actually bringing it to you?

It'd actually be an interesting concept to test out. Say it had an impact on the flag slightly more than the T2 disk. Also say that only offense would be able to grapple the flag. (To prevent the problem of defense grappling it into the side of a building or some other really difficult spot to pick it up). This gives midfield pickups more power, but counterable power with a choice.

Do you...

A.) Try grappling the flag to throw it towards you in a more favorable position for a pickup.

B.) Throw nades or discs at any D that might be close as to make it so that you're less likely to be killed after picking it up.

A.) has another downside as well. If the defense sees you coming in for a pickup on an open flag, they could always just cut down your angle and make it impossible for you to get a grapple shot on the flag.

Just some interesting gameplay effects when you think about it.
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booty said:
Ugh can the D grapple their own flag? That terrifies me.

Well let me rephrase if they can grapple it and move it and then let it go before returning it, that would terrify me. No one would ever have a flag pickup again :eek:
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No. D touches the flag and it returns. Also, there is no time between grappling the flag and holding it. When the grapple touches the flag, you (if you're on offense) have the flag. You won't be able to grapple it off the flag stand.
 
Thrax Panda said:
No. D touches the flag and it returns. Also, there is no time between grappling the flag and holding it. When the grapple touches the flag, you (if you're on offense) have the flag. You won't be able to grapple it off the flag stand.
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Oooo, that sounds scary... I don' t know if I like the sounds of that. I guess that would certain encourage the D to keep the flag on the stand and not hold it in the field
 
Instead of saying "yo this idea is gay, ABUSE!" state why and how? If only the offense could grapple a flag in the field, (and remember it'd only apply a jolt on the flag towards them *SIMILAR* to the T2 disc), I think it'd have a positive effect. Being able to disc the flag in T2 was gay because of three primary reasons:

A.) Both offense and defense could do it.
B.) Discs do alot of damage as well. So moving the flag also meant making the area by the flag a practical death zone.
C.) No counter to it at all.

This method does no damage, only makes the flag move a tiny bit, and has to be aimed far more precisely. It makes you sacrifice damage in the area around the flag to get the flag to move, *and* only offense can do it to prevent the defense from gaying it up. As far as a counter goes, if you see someone going for a MF pickup, all you have to do is cut down his angle by selective positioning and he won't be able to grapple the flag for a perfect pickup.






Noxin said:
Grappling the flag sounds like an extremely gay idea. I can see it being abused left and right. It could be interesting if the game were designed to only let you grapple the flag while it was in the air. Example: I have the enemy flag and am about to die. I throw the flag OR the flag gets launched from my body because I am killed and player x grapples the flag toward him while its still in the air. Player x being an friend or foe. That would be interesting to see mid-air flag returns by use of grappling hook. It would definately add another element to the way LD or LO is played and would allow people to focus on another skill
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Yeah, with the appearant range the grapple seems to have, making it an instant pickup of the flag for O would be a bad idea. It'd make it way too powerful. But I do like the concept of the grapple giving MF pickups a tad more power. Hence the post above :)

Hellsfury said:
Oooo, that sounds scary... I don' t know if I like the sounds of that. I guess that would certain encourage the D to keep the flag on the stand and not hold it in the field
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If you could pickup/return the flag by grappling it, that would be gay for obvious reasons. If grappling it only jolted the flag i could either see two things. 1.) people not even jolting the flag do to the difficulty involved in accurately hitting the flag with the grappling hook (if it in fact is difficult at all) or 2.) a cockfest of people jolting the flag around (hehe i dont really see this though). I do agree, mf pickups were nearly impossible in t2 if people disked the flag all day. I am hoping for more of a t1 approach when it comes to disking the flag. It makes escorting and using routes to pickup the flag midfield or off the stand more worthwhile.

off topic, but I'd like to see the conc grenades stay :)

Either way vivendi should keep their ears open to the forums for constructive criticism from the tribes community.

ZProtoss said:
Instead of saying "yo this idea is gay, ABUSE!" state why and how? If only the offense could grapple a flag in the field, (and remember it'd only apply a jolt on the flag towards them *SIMILAR* to the T2 disc), I think it'd have a positive effect. Being able to disc the flag in T2 was gay because of three primary reasons:

A.) Both offense and defense could do it.
B.) Discs do alot of damage as well. So moving the flag also meant making the area by the flag a practical death zone.
C.) No counter to it at all.

This method does no damage, only makes the flag move a tiny bit, and has to be aimed far more precisely. It makes you sacrifice damage in the area around the flag to get the flag to move, *and* only offense can do it to prevent the defense from gaying it up. As far as a counter goes, if you see someone going for a MF pickup, all you have to do is cut down his angle by selective positioning and he won't be able to grapple the flag for a perfect pickup.
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Well of course it'd be difficult. It'd be intended as a more advanced manuever for the offense. However I could see some potential depth to it developing at the top end in regards to pickups, and a few memorable moments as well. Since a small jolt to the flag in the direction the grapple came from could be the difference between a cap and a slightly missed MF pickup.

As far as the Vivendi comment, people like KP and Thrax are active on the forums, so you'd have to presume they're listening, at least a little bit. :shrug:

Noxin said:
If you could pickup/return the flag by grappling it, that would be gay for obvious reasons. If grappling it only jolted the flag i could either see two things. 1.) people not even jolting the flag do to the difficulty involved in accurately hitting the flag with the grappling hook (if it in fact is difficult at all) or 2.) a cockfest of people jolting the flag around (hehe i dont really see this though). I do agree, mf pickups were nearly impossible in t2 if people disked the flag all day. I am hoping for more of a t1 approach when it comes to disking the flag. It makes escorting and using routes to pickup the flag midfield or off the stand more worthwhile.

off topic, but I'd like to see the conc grenades stay :)

Either way vivendi should keep their ears open to the forums for constructive criticism from the tribes community.
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Just come up with a sensible explanation for WHY the O can grapple the flag but not the D, and the new players will be fine...
 
Thrax Panda said:
This discussion is quite frustrating to me. I've played T1, T2, and T:V. The current system works quite well. That's not to say it's perfect, but the sensor is nice to have up, and not a disaster to have down. It's advantageous to take out the enemy sensor, but not vital. I've seen the system in action, and it's good.

I appreciate the people who have given thoughtful suggestions. Many of them have been quite good, and I'm sure that the design team are thinking about all of those suggestions.

To the people who are simply bitching because it's not the way T1 or T2 did it, you'll get over it. I just don't care if it's the same. It's so completely unimportant for things like this to be the same that I can't find adequate words to describe how little I care. If you have a valid point other than "it worked just fine in my comfortable old world" then bring it, but the game is different, is going to continue to be different, and frankly the more you bitch about that the less I care about anything else you say.

Try to bring rational and progressive discourse, not histrionic conservatism.

Thanks.
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Sorry...I don't usually gripe about changes. The way it was described by KP sounded like it was designed to be an additional item to defend. I know the advantages to D of a good sensor net. It can mean the difference between winning and losing a game in T1.

Sorry for sounding like an ass about the sensor net in general, the main reason for my concern was the severity of the penalty for a downed sensor-net. Honestly, I can't see a reason other than simplification for not having IFFs on enemies at all when the sensor is down. If that is the ONLY reason, then it worries me, especially beacause cappers will be more unpredictable once then have grabbed the flag in T:V - noticing them early is a large advantage in my oppinion.

Of course, If Thrax says it's not a big deal, then yay :D

PS: Sorry, the vids from E3, especially of the grappler, which people seem to be very good at without a year of practice, scared me. One of the saving graces to T1 defense was the limited lateral movment a capper could exert. This *extremly* limited movment, (as speed increases, mobility decreases), allowed for the extremly exhilerating position of chaser to evolve.

The disc-jump was described as "less-powerful than an energy boost" at E3. This compounds the other factors in the game which will make chasing more difficult. I agree that T:V really has little in common to its predecessors besides general play mechanics, but I still hope that, at least, the most exhilerating aspects of the game remain. Please don't take my harsh comments to mean I think the game sucks, or that it *is* bad - the comments are merely what most of the people here are *thinking* with the limited information available to them.

You have to admit most the information given away about T:V has been regarding the changes made. You don't see a lot of threads titled, "the strategy and skill mixture of t:v is intact". This doesn't mean the game is not a blast to play and still a high degree of skill, it just means you should realize most the replies are going to be either, "yeah, that sounds cool!", or "yeah, that sounds HORRIBLE!". These are the only replies most people can make given the information.

Cliffnotes: The only replies to information most people can give is to the scenario they can run in their head from the picture created by people's text-based posts. The vehemency of people's replies only showcases the high-standards they class Tribes to, and to the great amount of success they desire for its sequel.
 
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Mr_Unlucky said:
Cliffnotes: The only replies to information most people can give is to the scenario they can run in their head from the picture created by people's text-based posts. The vehemency of people's replies only showcases the high-standards they class Tribes to, and to the great amount of success they desire for its sequel.
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Yep!

and now I think I can gather why the sensor jammer pack wasn't included in the game with the new sensor system. This gives a advantage to a whole team, which is seems kinda quirky in my book. Like to see how it runs in beta. With the armor being different would alleviate this some but without indicators it's going to be a real riot :)

In T2, Sometimes you can't even get the vets or experienced to pay attention when someone comes along in a SJammer, this is going to piss me off some :) but I'll sit back and watch the idiocy unfold anyway with my thumb in my ass and disbelief as usual. ;)
 
Thrax Panda said:
No. D touches the flag and it returns.
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Does that also include the grapple though? If a D uses the grapple on the flag from some distance, will the flag return to the stand?

You may have meant that, just wanted to be sure.
 
The sensor change doesn't really bother me. I liked the old sensor system (especially in T2 base), but appreciate that it adds significant complexity for the average player.

As for flag finders, my instinct is to be against them for reasons already stated. That said, if its hard to preclude cheating in T:V - just put it in (no insight on this technical issue).

Flag finders do afford a significant advantage to cheaters. If Flag Finders are hard to code out, put it in for everyone.
 
I don't mind the new sensor system, as far as competition goes, I welcome it. As far as pub play goes, I hope admins have options like disabling the destruction of the sensor, as well as other equipment like the generator when teams are very small and such.
 
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