Sniper rifle's suck 50% of the time

I dont like the 'warmup' time ideas. The only reason that is being considered (imo, correct me if im wrong)is to allow cappers or anyone else, a 'moments notice' before the shot occurs??

I think Tribes handled this part of the game perfectly. The lateral movement in Tribes allowed the snipee a chance to alter his fate. I like that approach myself.
 
Ambush_Bug[DTM] said:
Within those guidelines, Thrax, I believe the only items mentioned in this thread that would fit would be the following:

1. Charge-up, time to be determined
2. Pre-shot visible effect from the rifle
3. Laser-type rifle, but limited by cells (ammo, non recharging)
4. A bullet-type rifle, with ammunition
5. (I have probably missed one)

Personnaly, I wouldn't mind any of the above, but that's just me.

To toss out another idea, why not leave the rifle as it is now, but when someone aims at you with it, your radar HUD pings as if you were being picked up by pulse sensors? Perhaps it could show up as a different color, say purple for instance.

'Aiming at you' == laser rifle in hand, reticle placed on your body so they can see your name/health.

You could explain it through the older technology--leakage from the energy cells, not-quite-up-to-snuff optiks. Perhaps it could even be a good thing, back in those times of honorable combat--an electronic version of the sniper's dick he could wave around and love-tap people with before he put a hole in their skulls. ;)

I belive the result of such a HUD signal is that an attentive player would have just a hair's worth of warning more than someone just cruising along, and it would promote a little dodging skill too.

I don't know, however, how it would address the o//oob-sniping problem. Certainly the defenders could check their HUDs and go 'that bastard is o-sniping us again', but this wouldn't stop Mr. Rank Offender from actually doing it. *shrug* I think you need an admin for such things, myself.

*edit* wording *edit*
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Hell yea for the purple! But there should be a option to change the color. I'm sure Locke would appreciate the pink :D
 
I like the ammo ideas but the charge up idea is horrible in my opinion. The laser rifle was a fun weapon to use and didn't necessarily have to be used by campers. Sometimes while dueling it was effective to whip it out in midair and pick away at your oponent (due to the instant hit). Sure you may not kill them with that hit but it gets their health down.
 
I don't like the ammo idea, though I can see how it could help agains o and oob sniping (though oob guy would likely merely have to set up inv station first and there you go)

One thing though, if you switch it to ammo based, it wouldn't drain your epack, which would make it an inifitenly more viable weapon.. could have the unwanted side-effect of becoming a widely used one...
 
stop whining about the laser rifle. It can be annoying in pubs, but as far as matches go its a very balanced weapon. Its fine the way it is, preferably like it was in t1.
Fling :D
 
hmm.. i don't remember much about t1 actually.. didn't it do a lot of damage regardless of body hit (no extra headshot damage needed)

if so, then I say yes!
 
Damn Locke, you have enough sand in your pussy over the laser rifle to fill Death Valley to sea level. ;) It's part of the game man, don't act like every O-sniper has a personal autoaim bot searching for you.

I know I'll get flamed for saying this, but I played plenty of Renegades in my time, as well as base. Most of you are probably aware that Renegades is highly sniper-oriented. It has 4 different rifles, though the dart rifle is pretty much useless (the shot goes relatively slow, does 33% damage and poisons, more of an annoyance than a utility).

The other three:

laser rifle - same as base except a headshot will one-hit kill a light or medium.
sniper rifle - shoots bullets that travel fast, but not instant like the laser, one-hit kills.
rail gun - slight delay before firing (about a third to a half second), projectile travels about as fast or maybe slightly slower than the sniper rifle, no one-hit kills.


The rail gun is by far the most difficult to use. The initial delay before firing means you need to stay on target or you miss. I think it is probably what T:V should take after, with one change. The rail gun doesn't use energy. An easy excuse would be to say it requires lots of energy to propel the projectile to the extreme speeds it travels. I'd say a 50% zap to the energy bar would be fair, and would make it a balance between a purely energy-based rifle and an ammunition-based one. Mobility is reduced due to the energy zap, but not so much that once you fire you're fucked if it's close-combat.

Does it solve OOB sniping? No. Obviously inventory and ammo stations will solve the ammunition problem. I know it has been said in the past that OOB is meant for flag only, but why not extend that to inv/ammo/whatever not working OOB? I don't see it as that big of deal. I don't think anyone will feel the reality of the game is destroyed by that minor change. :) Now, to OOB snipe, at least for any significant period of time, OOB-Sniper is going to have to ski over with an ammo station in medium or heavy, set it down, ctrl-k and ski over again with his rifle, all without being interrupted. If said sniper is discovered, yes it is still annoying to have to go kill him, but he has to repeat the process again to get set up. Inv/ammos will have to be IB, so they will have to be relatively near the base (depending on the map) and should be much easier to find and destroy, even if you don't take out the sniper.

So to summarize:

  • Change laser to bullets, slight firing delay, 50% energy usage, 10 or so bullets. (It can stay a laser I suppose, with energy cells or something, but the whole recharging when near your base is just too convoluted, it should still need an inv or ammo station to recharge. I would just like to see bullets because it makes the weapon more skillful and difficult to use. Thus some newbie sniper couldn't pick it up and be a pro in a couple of games.)
  • Inv/ammo stations can only be used in-bounds and only carried by medium (or light, however they are setting this up. Whoever gets the rifle should not be able to carry them) and heavy.
  • No ammo pack, it was never used in T1, and it would be extremely viable and too powerful with this kind of sniper.

We're talking about pubs anyway, right? In a pub, I think you'll have enough time to divert your precious energy to taking out an o-sniper, safe in knowing that it'll be at least a minute or two before he can set up again, and he knows you know he's there. The big deal from this post is to make o-sniping time-consuming and not very beneficial. If it is too annoying to do all that, it will be done less, and won't be as big of a problem.

But that's just what I think would work, at least better than what we have now.
 
commonsense said:
the delay would prevent it from being a viable weapon when chasing a capper or in combat.. yet it would only minimize sniping
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No, it would still be viable, just require more skill. The T1 laser rifle has a relatively low skill curve. It doesn't take much to get very accurate with it. It's not like this is a 2.5 second charge up time as was discussed earlier, we're talking a third of a second. But NO! That wouldn't work because it's too different from T1 and there's no way we could possibly adjust to a different weapon.

There are certain shots you will no longer be able to make, such as ones where a capper just barely gets behind a hill. Firing at him right as he does it will result in a miss. A laser would have hit. However, if you are more skilled at the weapon, you'll predict him to head behind that hill at the right time, fire before he gets there, and nail him. All it does is turn it into a more difficult weapon to use. As I said, it will keep your skilless loser from picking up a rifle and racking up points.

Hopefully in T:V it will be possible to have a reload delay, but still be able to switch weapons. Obviously it needs to keep a timer so you can't switch from sniper to disc then back and be able to fire again, because there should be a good 2 or 3 second reload delay, but not being able to use another weapon in that time would suck.
 
Ixiterra said:
Damn Locke, you have enough sand in your pussy over the laser rifle to fill Death Valley to sea level. ;)
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I wish I had a pussy. Life would be easier, and the toys would be better.

I have stopped reading this thread since my last post. Ran out of time and got tired of saying the same thing again and again. I am sure that will make a lot of people in this thread happy. I will come back to this thing later when I have more free time.
 
Ixiterra said:
No, it would still be viable, just require more skill.
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Hmm.. I see, I misread your post, I though you were calling for a longer delay.. I agree a very slight delay wouldn't screw anything up horribly

I still prefer unlimited ammo, but as I said earlier, energy "cells" in exchange for normal mobility would be welcome I'd think.

However, what ramifications would no longer needing a energy pack for a laser rifle have? Shielded snipers? Cloaked (If it's in there) snipers? Snipers w/ blast packs? You mentioned no ammo pakcs, but what about the rest?
 
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I really like the way the sniper rifle works in T1 (I think it's just fine in T2 as well. The blinking light from the sniper seems like a good thing). Actually I can only think of one thing that really needs to be changed; make the laser beam terminate at the maximum visible distance from the player (don't let the player be able to hurt targets that are not within his/her visible range). No fog is no fun :[
 
commonsense said:
I still prefer unlimited ammo, but as I said earlier, energy "cells" in exchange for normal mobility would be welcome I'd think.
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Well, unlimited ammo is definitely a key bonus to being an OOB sniper. Never have to return home until you get killed. I'd just like to see bullets so that there wouldn't have to be some crazy scheme to make it difficult to OOB snipe.

However, what ramifications would no longer needing a energy pack for a laser rifle have? Shielded snipers? Cloaked (If it's in there) snipers? Snipers w/ blast packs? You mentioned no ammo pakcs, but what about the rest?
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Good point. I kind of added the no ammo pack as an afterthought, but didn't realize snipers would have other options available. I suppose the epack could still be required, because the gun would still use energy. A shielded and/or cloaked sniper would definitely be a pain in the ass. I don't think cloaking will be in the game, but even shielding would be nasty. Most people would probably take the epack anyway once someone came to take them out though. But the epack could still be required. :shrug: That's something the devs and the beta testers will have to work out. :)
 
I read about half of this. My suggestion - just tone it down a little.
1. 80% of T1 power
2. Lengthen reload time slightly

Maybe
3. Less damage at ultra long range.
 
didnt feel like reading the thread so i dont care if thsi was said before. sinec this is suppose to be before t1. make the rifle to big for a light to handle and make up something as to why the heavy cant handle it. heavy is too restricting i dont know. the medium would be jsut right for it. it would make them useful for something other than farming.
 
My bad reading comprehension aside, all of the ideas suggested would basically make using the sniper rifle a chore.

I think if the sniper rifle is going to stay a fun weapon you'll just have to deal with the o sniping.
 
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