Sniper rifle's suck 50% of the time

Locke355 said:

my point still remains.. it wont solve 1 damn thing for reasons i posted in last msg.

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I kind of thought it does. Part of the discussion here (or so I thought) was that the sniper rifle was not fun for the person being shot. You never really say "Hey man, ns" when you're hit with a sniper rifle. "Wtf!? Cheats!" or "Bullshit fucking O-snipers. ban" are the common phrase.

It's my opinion this results from the sneakiness of the weapon. 800 tribal measuring units away and all of a sudden you're sniped out of no where. It sucks, you never had a chance.


As for you ammo thing, the locational base area is kind of hokier, but I understand it may be the only solution for molding pub play away from oob sniper fielders.

Sir Lucius said:

It's my opinion this results from the sneakiness of the weapon. 800 tribal measuring units away and all of a sudden you're sniped out of no where. It sucks, you never had a chance.

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K.. and my point (and am looking for a counter point to) is that adding some glow.. flair.. even a laser beam pointer does not solve that problem (which is you are sniped out of no where.. and can do nothing about it). Even if you had a glitterbomb go off at the guys feet, and he was looking FABULOUS, the only thing you can do if you dont have a rifle to fire back is sit there zoomed in at 20x, watching some guy who looks FABULOUS take shots at you. That or you can go out and meet him, but I think we agree that is lame.

Keep conversation alive. Somehow an solution must come of out of this thread!

BTW: I was crying laughing at the looking fabulous shit. My boss wondered what was wrong with me.

Here is my idea for the sniper rifle problem. I borrowed ideas from other people and my own.

Have the weapon require a chargup time, holding down the mouse key, and it takes about 2 1/2 seconds to charge all the way. While it charges it takes some energy away from the jets (about half the energy). Also while its charging the gun emits a very faint line of attack beam... it looks like a targetting laser only very light and only for a short distance from the sniper.

That would make it a primarily defensive weapon, while giving the offensive players a little more leverage to where the sniper is, and where he is going to shoot. Promoting the offensive aspect of tribes is what makes tribes fun.

I made an mspaint to help convey my idea.

If you have 2.5 seconds to make your shot, you need to find new people to play against because obviously you're not being challenged.

Well then fuck, shorten the goddamn chargup time. Its an idea, dont insult me please.

while i enjoyed the pictures.. that idea simply removes the rifle from any context where it can be used skillfully.. and makes it more of a o-sniping only weapon.

Umm, how does that
a) remove skill
and b) make it o-snipe only?

The only difference is that you can't whip out the rifle real quick and pop off a quick shot (which isn't how sniper rifles should be used anyway), you have to charge it up for a couple seconds, and whoever you're aiming at will see the laser sight near them. Both of these should make it LESS effective for o-sniping.


hint devs pls combine compass with proximity map

exogen said:

Umm, how does that
a) remove skill
and b) make it o-snipe only?

The only difference is that you can't whip out the rifle real quick and pop off a quick shot (which isn't how sniper rifles should be used anyway), you have to charge it up for a couple seconds, and whoever you're aiming at will see the laser sight near them. Both of these should make it LESS effective for o-sniping.

http://exogen.hypermart.net/snipe.gif
hint devs pls combine compass with proximity map

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hey boy genius.. why dont you go up and read my posts on why it wont make it less friendly for o-sniping.

It removes skill because now i have to sit my ass planted and wait 2.5 seconds for a fucking timer to expire. I can't midair shoot it, i can't shoot it while skiing, etc. Make it so he can run around while charing, and you completely remove any benefit to charing that would hinder offensive sniping (see previous posts).

There could also be a score disincentive to oob o-sniping.

Make it so that if you kill someone with the sniper rifle and there are no other enemies within, say, 400m, you don't get credit for the kill. (The logic being that it was too easy).

This will allow people to score when using it in most defensive, midfield and direct offensive applications but not when going out in the middle of nowhere to pick off targets. Someone would have to be in the remote vacinity of enemies if they want to be rewarded for sniper rifle kills.

Locke355 said:

blah blah blah

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I did read your previous post, that doesn't mean there was anything worth reading.
Who said the player's movement would be limited while charging? Nobody.

Edit: Here's an explanation of the laser sight, for some of our slower members. This is not to light up the sniper like a light bulb. You're right in that making the sniper himself more visible would do nothing. That's not what I'm suggesting. It's making his laser/aim visible BEFORE he even takes a shot, i.e. when he is charging or just plain has the rifle equipped. O-sniping is bad partly because it's easy due to defensive players not moving around much, right? Well, if they saw that the sniper was aiming at them (i.e. they see the laser sight go past them, they do NOT have to be looking directly at the sniper, it would just be obvious), they could *GASP* move out of the way. Thus, it wouldn't be effective. Defensive snipers are aiming at incoming and outgoing targets, i.e. they are moving fast. These players will also see the laser being aimed at them, but probably don't have much energy to dodge and if they do, good for them, they found a way to counter the sniper rifle and yay it's balanced.

exogen said:

I did read your previous post, that doesn't mean there was anything worth reading.
Who said the player's movement would be limited while charging? Nobody.

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Great.. i will fill in the blanks for you, since you seem incapable. Now instead of just sitting in the boonies o-sniping, popping out from behind a hill every few seconds, I have to hold down charge for 2.5 seconds, while looking at the back of a hill, sidestep twice so i get a clear view of the enemy base, and fire. Problem is obviously solved since I know the people on d who just got hit are having fun (please understand this sentence is filled with sarcasm).

Meanwhile, on D, i just lost a perfectly good snipe because i had to wait 2.5 seconds after changing to the weapon so i could fire at a capper moving super fast through the terrain. Too bad I wasn't running around my base like an idiot with the laser rifle out holding down fire, cause there is a timer on it.

I've suggested this before, but if the sniper rifle was given to the medium armour, then o-sniping becomes more dangerous. Sure you may get off a shot or two, but when a light goes out to intercept the guy it's much more likely the medium is going to lose.

exogen said:

Edit: Here's an explanation of the laser sight, for some of our slower members. This is not to light up the sniper like a light bulb. You're right in that making the sniper himself more visible would do nothing. That's not what I'm suggesting. It's making his laser/aim visible BEFORE he even takes a shot, i.e. when he is charging or just plain has the rifle equipped. O-sniping is bad partly because it's easy due to defensive players not moving around much, right? Well, if they saw that the sniper was aiming at them (i.e. they see the laser sight go past them, they do NOT have to be looking directly at the sniper, it would just be obvious), they could *GASP* move out of the way. Thus, it wouldn't be effective. Defensive snipers are aiming at incoming and outgoing targets, i.e. they are moving fast. These players will also see the laser being aimed at them, but probably don't have much energy to dodge and if they do, good for them, they found a way to counter the sniper rifle and yay it's balanced.

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I dont care if you are doing the fuckin salsa at the speed of light.. if i am sitting in the hills zoomed in on you, i can move my reticle faster than you can move your stupid character. It is a hitscan weapon. Dont tell me you are going to dodge that after i fire it. You wont be dodging it before i do.

So now you know some idiot has a rifle in the middle of no where. Your options are to run behind a hill or base object (great.. now i am pinned down by some assfuck in the middle of nowhere) or you get hit in the head. Either way, it isn't fun.

First read my edit, then...

Locke355 said:

...sidestep twice so i get a clear view of the enemy base, and fire...

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if the D are being aware of their surroundings like good little D, they will see your laser sight as it moves over the hill, and sidestep themselves. your shot misses.

Locke355 said:

Meanwhile, on D, i just lost a perfectly good snipe because i had to wait 2.5 seconds after changing to the weapon so i could fire at a capper moving super fast through the terrain.

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Yep, you just lost a snipe, but don't blame it on the weapon. You as a sniper were in a bad position if you only had the time to get one shot. This is a new game. Maybe now snipers will have to place themselves *gasp* strategically?

exogen said:

First read my edit, then...

if the D are being aware of their surroundings like good little D, they will see your laser sight as it moves over the hill, and sidestep themselves. your shot misses.


Yep, you just lost a snipe, but don't blame it on the weapon. You as a sniper were in a bad position if you only had the time to get one shot. This is a new game. Maybe now snipers will have to place themselves *gasp* strategically?

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You act as if where the fake aiming laser goes.. it wont move, so the d can just easily step out of the way, and some tard who isn't even moving.. perfectly planted under 0 pressure is going to miss them every time. Who is our test sniper-fag here? Some member who installed the game an hour ago?

The point is there shouldn't be "snipers" in the first place. This is a game built on speed, not camping on a fucking hill. It is a "laser rifle".. not a sniper rifle. There is a huge difference. Design it as such. The only reason i use the term "snipe" when refering to hitting any shot with the laser, is because people are so accustomed to it, and I seem to already be way over your head. I dont want to lose you any further.

What about just limiting the range a bit more? I like a cap-saving 800m snipe as much as the next guy, but if you shorten the range to something a bit more reasonable, then you preserve the defensive value of the snipe while hampering its "O-sniper" or "OOB Sniper Faggot" factor. You also increase the value of the chaser, which I think is one of the most exciting roles in CTF-like games.

If you want to O-snipe but the rifle only shoots 400m, you're going to have to get reasonably close to the people you're pissing off.

Let me see if I can remember my T1 mapping correctly. If I remember right, there were two factors that determined how far you could snipe. There was a "visible distance" that affected what you could actually see, presumably (barring cheaters) affecting what you could snipe. But wasn't there also some other map parameter that controlled how far a sniper beam would go? Something that was vaguely like "visible distance" but different?

Maybe I'm on dope. But maybe you can partially solve the problem by exposing the right parameters to the mappers and letting them do the right thing.

Also Thrax, is there any mandate that says that the various parameters of the game need to be similar in pubs vs match mode? I think it wouldn't hurt to make pub mode moderately differ from match mode in lots of different areas.

"Hi, my name is Locke, and I will dictate how you should play while at the same time asserting that my opinions are infallible."

I don't like the charge up time so much but I think that the rifle should always have the faint directional line showing when it's being held.

Well, if the charge isn't your cup of tea you could always just have the sight show up when the enemy is in your proximity. Such that, you know in tribes 2 how when you have an enemy close to your crosshairs (not in tribes1 where it's a dead aim) their health and name come up? In that area the sight turns on, now they'll know they're being aimed at.


Someone before mentioned not giving points for the kill. This reminds me of my "honor points" idea. Basically anything goes in game, but you have a set of points devoted to how you play. Unsportsmenlike conduct lowers your honor rating. For example, destroying a base while there's fewer than X ammount of people would lose you so many honor points. oob kills or snipes would lose honor points. Team killing would lose honor points. You get the idea.

The whole point of the system is that server admins can set up on their own through what gains and what takes away from a player's honor score. They can also have it so violators get a message in the front of their screen along the lines of: "You have lost 10 honor points for o-sniping." Servers could also set the number in which players are kicked. On a zero tolerance server it could be very low, -25 or something.

Anyways exact numbers aren't important. Even if something like this isn't shipped with the game it can easily be scripted for server side. It solves the o-sniping problem without changing the weapons and passively lets admins run the game the way they want to run it.

Miracle said:

There could also be a score disincentive to oob o-sniping.

Make it so that if you kill someone with the sniper rifle and there are no other enemies within, say, 400m, you don't get credit for the kill. (The logic being that it was too easy).

This will allow people to score when using it in most defensive, midfield and direct offensive applications but not when going out in the middle of nowhere to pick off targets. Someone would have to be in the remote vacinity of enemies if they want to be rewarded for sniper rifle kills.

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I'd rather do something like this than change the actual functionality of the rifle based on location as some people suggest, but then there's not much to give or take besides points, and most don't care about those, especially since everyone is supporting statistics instead now.

Rev said:

"Hi, my name is Locke, and I will dictate how you should play while at the same time asserting that my opinions are infallible."

I don't like the charge up time so much but I think that the rifle should always have the faint directional line showing when it's being held.

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explain to me how i am dictating how you can play the game by making the weapon ammo based.

Please. Proceed.

My opinions aren't infallible. If I thought that, I would just give them to thrax, demand they be implemented, threaten that he gets no disney movies for a month if they aren't, and not bother posting here. Obviously, since I did, I am giving my opinions up for scrutiny. If you have a problem with them, aside from "i dont like the idea", but have actual reasons such as "i dont like the idea because i [insert reason here]", please, criticize and contribute. Note how I am trying to tell others why their opinions wont work, so we can move on and find a better solution?

And if you want a faint line, put one in. I care less if they know here I am or not. Make it so i dont see my own line, or at the very least can turn my own line off, i dont want that cluttering up my reticle.