Sniper rifle's suck 50% of the time
- Thread starter Thrax Panda
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GIMPbeowulf
Veteran X
Interesting concept, but while taking away some of the damage it does, you're adding the effect of the elf (everybody's fav, no?) to it.
For me, in classic, it's really easy to move quickly and still maintain most of your energy all the time. With a good cap route it is a piece of cake to have almost all your energy when you're vulnerable, and that's without looking for routes that have that property which this method would cause people to do. I can't really speak for t1 as I didn't play enough to get very good at skiing but I imagine it goes the same there too. It would make it necesary for multiple snipes, interesting, I don't know how it would work, it would sure change things a lot tho.
The problem also isn't o-snipers, if using something on a different part of the field is a problem, then it's not the player that's the problem, it's the something being used. In this specific case though, choice snipes on their side of the map such as on LD who are a big threat (MDers, BBers) to your capper, ld who are about to snipe cappers, hofs that are almost dead, close chasers, last-second capper shots to save cap, etc are useful and not pointless, but sitting on a hill and sniping over and over at their lf is not likely useful because of the nature of the useful ones.
Also, as far as the "skill" aspect of sniping goes, there are 2 things that determine your ability with the rifle:
1. Your connection to the server and your familiarity with that connection.
2. How well you use a mouse.
If both of those are good for you then with a bit of warmup you can be a decent sniper, simple as that.
The other weapons in tribes require much more "skill" to use, even the chaingun, the rifle is the only one that it just point and shoot. While mouse skill is a very important thing in all FPSs, sniping "skill" pales in comparison to the other weapons so let's not sweat people and their sniping skill too much.
For me, in classic, it's really easy to move quickly and still maintain most of your energy all the time. With a good cap route it is a piece of cake to have almost all your energy when you're vulnerable, and that's without looking for routes that have that property which this method would cause people to do. I can't really speak for t1 as I didn't play enough to get very good at skiing but I imagine it goes the same there too. It would make it necesary for multiple snipes, interesting, I don't know how it would work, it would sure change things a lot tho.
The problem also isn't o-snipers, if using something on a different part of the field is a problem, then it's not the player that's the problem, it's the something being used. In this specific case though, choice snipes on their side of the map such as on LD who are a big threat (MDers, BBers) to your capper, ld who are about to snipe cappers, hofs that are almost dead, close chasers, last-second capper shots to save cap, etc are useful and not pointless, but sitting on a hill and sniping over and over at their lf is not likely useful because of the nature of the useful ones.
Also, as far as the "skill" aspect of sniping goes, there are 2 things that determine your ability with the rifle:
1. Your connection to the server and your familiarity with that connection.
2. How well you use a mouse.
If both of those are good for you then with a bit of warmup you can be a decent sniper, simple as that.
The other weapons in tribes require much more "skill" to use, even the chaingun, the rifle is the only one that it just point and shoot. While mouse skill is a very important thing in all FPSs, sniping "skill" pales in comparison to the other weapons so let's not sweat people and their sniping skill too much.
commonsense
Veteran X
Yes, because once eveyone has practised with a sniper rifle, they can all be l33t snipers..
Yankee said:
Though I definitely like the concept, you would think if it were to work that way that it would have to use up the energy that protected you from the snipe. Otherwise if you're at full energy, you're basically invincible to a sniper. Or maybe there could be some kind of rationalization for why your energy reduces laser rifle damage.
You want to make the sniper rifle impossibly hard to use?
Make it a "charge up" weapon: you'd have to keep the button pressed for a few seconds before your shot does full damage. If you want to make it even harder, the charge will go off after a set amount of time
So you can either snipe accurately for little damage, or take your chances with a full blast. I bet some people would get good at that too...
Make it a "charge up" weapon: you'd have to keep the button pressed for a few seconds before your shot does full damage. If you want to make it even harder, the charge will go off after a set amount of time
So you can either snipe accurately for little damage, or take your chances with a full blast. I bet some people would get good at that too...
PyroTeknik said:You want to make the sniper rifle impossibly hard to use?
Make it a "charge up" weapon: you'd have to keep the button pressed for a few seconds before your shot does full damage. If you want to make it even harder, the charge will go off after a set amount of time
So you can either snipe accurately for little damage, or take your chances with a full blast. I bet some people would get good at that too...
That was brought up in the thread and quickly sniped down. HARHAR!
You are a master of comedy
You know what would be neat? If the forums had a cliffnotes option. Teehee.
You know what would be neat? If the forums had a cliffnotes option. Teehee.
Honestly, I haven't read this whole thread, maybe up to page 3. But I want to give my thoughts
I've been sniping since the first week of t1 release. I can say I know I'm a decent sniper, not great, but decent. I have always thought it's been fine the way it is, using energy as it's ammo and however much you have is how powerful it is. It was fine the way it was in t1, and t2. The only problem I saw in my eyes was the lack of mobility in t2, which was stated before. The comment on maybe having a way of knowing if you're being aimed at is retarded imo. It's plain as day to see if they have it out in t1/t2, and it kind of ruins the suprise of being sniped if you know someone has locked on to you ala rocket launcher. The visible beam for a few seconds after a shot has always been good. Guess what I'm trying to say is I really don't see a problem with the sniper rifle. Yes, it's annoying for oob or o snipers in pubs, but it happens. I dunno how this can be worked with it still being balanced and effect. I actually use it more than I do disc and would hate to see it borked in the next game. Dunno, I'm gay no need to listen
I've been sniping since the first week of t1 release. I can say I know I'm a decent sniper, not great, but decent. I have always thought it's been fine the way it is, using energy as it's ammo and however much you have is how powerful it is. It was fine the way it was in t1, and t2. The only problem I saw in my eyes was the lack of mobility in t2, which was stated before. The comment on maybe having a way of knowing if you're being aimed at is retarded imo. It's plain as day to see if they have it out in t1/t2, and it kind of ruins the suprise of being sniped if you know someone has locked on to you ala rocket launcher. The visible beam for a few seconds after a shot has always been good. Guess what I'm trying to say is I really don't see a problem with the sniper rifle. Yes, it's annoying for oob or o snipers in pubs, but it happens. I dunno how this can be worked with it still being balanced and effect. I actually use it more than I do disc and would hate to see it borked in the next game. Dunno, I'm gay no need to listen
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GIMPbeowulf
Veteran X
Personally, I don't think osniping specifically is the problem.
The problem is the effectiveness of the sniper rifle.
In T1 it's not so bad becaue people have equip less and in T2 on some maps it fills it's own niche but doesn't dominate. The problem comes on maps where it's see for miles, smooth rolling terrain, base can be kept, and nice vantage points. So, one could easily say that the problem is the maps and not the weapon just like you could say the weapon is overpowered.
However, if people are going to make that type of map then it's going to be a problem.
So, maps that have lots of terrain changes to get behind, flags that one cannot see so well from, or a little less visible distance are all also things that can solve the problem that I personally see. However, that will require attention and understanding of the mappers.
Unfortunatly, if someone has a great time sniping on a map, they're probably going to vote yes when it comes on the twl ballot.
The problem is the effectiveness of the sniper rifle.
In T1 it's not so bad becaue people have equip less and in T2 on some maps it fills it's own niche but doesn't dominate. The problem comes on maps where it's see for miles, smooth rolling terrain, base can be kept, and nice vantage points. So, one could easily say that the problem is the maps and not the weapon just like you could say the weapon is overpowered.
However, if people are going to make that type of map then it's going to be a problem.
So, maps that have lots of terrain changes to get behind, flags that one cannot see so well from, or a little less visible distance are all also things that can solve the problem that I personally see. However, that will require attention and understanding of the mappers.
Unfortunatly, if someone has a great time sniping on a map, they're probably going to vote yes when it comes on the twl ballot.
Well, from what I've seen of the maps so far, with all the trees, buildings, and other props, it'd be rather hard to snipe someone unless he's really high up.
J
JKal
Guest
I didn't have the patients to read all 11 pages of posts so I'm skipping ahead to post my idea, if it has already been suggested, sorry. I really don't think there is a problem with sniping, yes in a few games you've got too many snipers sitting around shooting at one target, but all in all it is a good weapon. I think what locke is trying to say is that no matter what anyone does it's still gonna piss people off and screw with the game concept...a little. Deal with it like people did in T1. All the crazy ideas abandon the KISS principle, but I'll throw my own out.
The dynamics of the Rifle should stay the same but if the community thinks it's that big of a problem, limit the number of rifles allowed on the map at one time.
The dynamics of the Rifle should stay the same but if the community thinks it's that big of a problem, limit the number of rifles allowed on the map at one time.
Njal Storm
Veteran X
PyroTeknik said:
bingo.
clever the dev team is.....
edit: and if that was not a plan of yours you can easily claim it to be <3
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i haven't read from like page 4 or so, but here are my thoughts
the sniper rifle is fine the way it is. leave it only to lights can use it, people suggesting to make it a medium armor is silly- i always chased as LD with the sniper + cg, taking this away to cater to the turret monkey armor is in my opinion, a very bad choice.
then again, none of us, save the devs, know how the armors will be implemented, so i dunno
the sniper rifle is fine the way it is. leave it only to lights can use it, people suggesting to make it a medium armor is silly- i always chased as LD with the sniper + cg, taking this away to cater to the turret monkey armor is in my opinion, a very bad choice.
then again, none of us, save the devs, know how the armors will be implemented, so i dunno
|MrSniper|Nyx
Veteran X
Gundamflare said:
Not always true. Sniper D can be done two ways. One way is to be a fixed sniper, relying on that one "money shot" to take down the capper. The other way is to "ski-n-shoot", moving from hilltop to hill top taking multiple shots as the capper moves away, each shot having less power as your jets are recharging but still being effective in helping the other LD take the capper down.
I run snipe in Rabbit and Arena because its too easy to hit people when standing still and very cheap. In CTF I base it on the map.
I think the real issue is are you trying to make the game more balanced for comp or pub? If you are making it more for pubbing then the sniper rifle may need to be tweaked to avoid O sniping more, but if you are making it more for comp then the rifle is pretty well balanced already.
GIMPbeowulf
Veteran X
In T2 pubs teams that have 8-10 out of 14 playing lazy sniper d are the problem, not the osnipers.|MrSniper|Nyx said:
Got to page 7, stopped reading.
I like the original Tribes' laser rifle: It was instant fire, it did alot of damage to the people you were supposed to use it against (lights), but not so much that it was a one hit kill, and there was a distinct balance to using it (it drained all your energy, limiting your ability to chase or maneuver[I know I mispelt this, but I'm tired and can't think of the correct spelling] for short periods of time.) Basing it's usage on ammunition removes the penalty that comes inherently with using the rifle and also lowers it's usefulness outside of defense. If you're attacking their base with it, then ammunition doesn't really matter as if you probably won't use it exclusively enough to waste your x number of shots.
The original rifle was a weapon that served it's purpose anywhere. It wasn't the greatest weapon for offense or defense, the disc usually proving far more deadly in the close quarters of flag defense/offense [which is the primary goal]. But as an alternative to either of those, realising you can't kill the escorter/defender/capper in time, so taking a stand and risking it all on one quick snipe, it was exhilarating if you hit, disasterous if you missed, but it was based on a tactical split second decision.
The point is, that it was never a be all, end all weapon and it's usefulness or balance were perfect, for those who used it properly.
As far as O(OB) snipers and lazy-d go, there must be other ways to prevent them from abusing the rifle than changing the rifle itself. I can't really think of any reasonable use policies for the rifle, but changing the balance of the weapon is the wrong way to go about it. Lazy-D and o snipers rarely profitted, you could usually kick them from the server.
I like the original Tribes' laser rifle: It was instant fire, it did alot of damage to the people you were supposed to use it against (lights), but not so much that it was a one hit kill, and there was a distinct balance to using it (it drained all your energy, limiting your ability to chase or maneuver[I know I mispelt this, but I'm tired and can't think of the correct spelling] for short periods of time.) Basing it's usage on ammunition removes the penalty that comes inherently with using the rifle and also lowers it's usefulness outside of defense. If you're attacking their base with it, then ammunition doesn't really matter as if you probably won't use it exclusively enough to waste your x number of shots.
The original rifle was a weapon that served it's purpose anywhere. It wasn't the greatest weapon for offense or defense, the disc usually proving far more deadly in the close quarters of flag defense/offense [which is the primary goal]. But as an alternative to either of those, realising you can't kill the escorter/defender/capper in time, so taking a stand and risking it all on one quick snipe, it was exhilarating if you hit, disasterous if you missed, but it was based on a tactical split second decision.
The point is, that it was never a be all, end all weapon and it's usefulness or balance were perfect, for those who used it properly.
As far as O(OB) snipers and lazy-d go, there must be other ways to prevent them from abusing the rifle than changing the rifle itself. I can't really think of any reasonable use policies for the rifle, but changing the balance of the weapon is the wrong way to go about it. Lazy-D and o snipers rarely profitted, you could usually kick them from the server.
GIMPbeowulf
Veteran X
Unfortunatly, while such things don't tend to appear in match play in large quantities (sniper d can get heavy in matches tho), they do appear in pubs in large quantities; and if pubs suck, people won't be around long enough to make it to match play. Also, most pubs don't have adequate policing to remove such stupidity and even if they do, they don't usually do much about d snipers.
What about a sniper shield around the base? Something which only stops sniper shots? Gets rid of o-sniping, but only for those guys sitting at their base? Go outside your base and you're fair game (as it should be). Hell, it could be tied to the generators so that when those go down, so does your sniper shield.
You could explain it as the EMP field of the gens disrupt the sniper rifle...
Only problem is you get rid of the last minute snipe JUST as the guy is about to cap.
BLAH, if I had to I'd just leave it as is...no real way to nerf o-sniping without taking out some cool aspect of the game.
You could explain it as the EMP field of the gens disrupt the sniper rifle...
Only problem is you get rid of the last minute snipe JUST as the guy is about to cap.
BLAH, if I had to I'd just leave it as is...no real way to nerf o-sniping without taking out some cool aspect of the game.
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GIMPbeowulf
Veteran X
Doing something to get rid of osniping is the wrong way to do it. If the weapon isn't ballanced then do something smart to ballance it, not something to specifically counter one use.