Booty Bay Observation

Bodom said:
silverpine is horde controlled not contested and its for level 10-18


true. however the distance from darkshire FP to SS is about the same as hinterlands from TM


horde controlled, level 10-20, on par with westfall


on par with darkshire. both contested. you have the feralas FP that borders feralas and 1KN and gadget. we have nothing near darkshire, only gromgol.


agreed but you also have Chillwind point (with shops) although its higher level. blasted lands you have nethergarde and we have....back to Swamp of Sorrows. Searing gorge we have the neutral FP above ruins of thaurassian and you have some town/post in the south before the gates to redridge


while the lore is new there blizzard could still have done something better than what they did....

as far as your "towns/fp/etc" i dare say i just refuted most of that =]
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Wait.. what does being Horde controlled have to do with it? That just makes it more beneficial to Horde, not less so. I'm looking at the levels. That Redridge and Darkshire are contested is against the Alliance, not for it.
 
Archimedes said:
Let's not forget that Alliance has two plate wearers, whereas the Horde only has one. Let the Shamans wear plate :p
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I don't consider that an imbalance at all. When it comes to Paladins vs. Shamans, Shamans win.. Paladins don't tank at medium-high lvls. Period. I know some Horde seem to think that Paladins can tank in instances, but past lvl 30 it's just not done. Paladins have no way to hold aggro. It's all fine and good that they can take hits, but they simply don't take the hits with any reasonably good DPS class in the group.
 
Sojourn said:
I don't consider that an imbalance at all. When it comes to Paladins vs. Shamans, Shamans win.. Paladins don't tank at medium-high lvls. Period. I know some Horde seem to think that Paladins can tank in instances, but past lvl 30 it's just not done. Paladins have no way to hold aggro. It's all fine and good that they can take hits, but they simply don't take the hits with any reasonably good DPS class in the group.
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i'm pretty sure he was joking
 
Archimedes said:
He's arguing that you guys have more territory with relatively no Horde presence.
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I guess that's a matter of perspective. Darkshire and Redridge are one of the first places 30-40+ Horde go because they are contested areas. Quest wise, yes.. there is no Horde presence. But when it comes to PvP, those 2 places are #1 on the hitlist. Low lvl Alliance + Contested = Gankville.
 
Ztir said:
i'm pretty sure he was joking
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Probably, but it's still a common misconception I see a lot when I play Horde. Paladins may have 3 lives.. but those lives certainly don't help them in groups.
 
Sojourn said:
I guess that's a matter of perspective. Darkshire and Redridge are one of the first places 30-40+ Horde go because they are contested areas. Quest wise, yes.. there is no Horde presence. But when it comes to PvP, those 2 places are #1 on the hitlist. Low lvl Alliance + Contested = Gankville.
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we go there to draw out the level 60's because of the relatively low level guards that are there
 
Sojourn said:
Probably, but it's still a common misconception I see a lot when I play Horde. Paladins may have 3 lives.. but those lives certainly don't help them in groups.
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i agree with you there, if shamans could wear plate they would be unstopable. hell, as a shaman myself, mail is more then enough to massacre any class i want to

the reason most horde hate paladins(at least me) is because they take so long to kill and it gets boring and i'd rather do something else instead of essentially fighting the same person 3 times
 
Ztir said:
we go there to draw out the level 60's because of the relatively low level guards that are there
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Which is kind of the point. Unless you started when the server first began and beat the rush.. you simply can't lvl in Darkshire or Redridge without getting ganked. The lack of Horde quests aside.. it's not a safe zone by any stretch of the imagination. It doesn't help that Blizzard is so fucking stupid that they allow Horde to sit on the roof in Darkshire with absolutely zero penalty. Guards need ranged weapons. Gadgetzan and BB are one thing.. but when Horde can plant themselves on the roof of an Alliance protected town without being able to be hit by the guards.. there is a problem. Sure, it might be ranged only.. but tell that to a Hunter who is 20-30 levels higher than any of the players questing there. Or the Mage or Warlock who can throw down spells with ease. I'm happy Blizzard made attempts to improve the capitol cities and the neutral ones.. but to not give guards range wpns is just plain stupid.
 
Interesting, back when I was in a PvP server the main ganking areas were Stonetalon, Ashenvale, STV, and Tanaris. And what you people say the ganking actually got worse with higher level gankers moving into even lower level areas. From the sounds of it the lowest level contested areas. So glad I got out of that when I did.

If you think ganking ad getting ganked is fun then be my guest, but it ain't fun for me.
 
Feannag said:
Interesting, back when I was in a PvP server the main ganking areas were Stonetalon, Ashenvale, STV, and Tanaris. And what you people say the ganking actually got worse with higher level gankers moving into even lower level areas. From the sounds of it the lowest level contested areas. So glad I got out of that when I did.

If you think ganking ad getting ganked is fun then be my guest, but it ain't fun for me.
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have fun doing nothing but fighting mobs all day and being bored to death
 
Ztir said:
have fun doing nothing but fighting mobs all day and being bored to death
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We do raids and PvP when I'm in the mood, but if the entire point of the game was to fight other players would it not have been made primarily like a RTS or FPS game?
 
Feannag said:
We do raids and PvP when I'm in the mood, but if the entire point of the game was to fight other players would it not have been made primarily like a RTS or FPS game?
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usually games where you have a pvp option and the only thing to do when you're 60 other then do instances is pvp, yes, the point of the game is pvp

**edit**

also, it's fucking warcraft. when has fighting someone not been the point of the game?
 
Ztir said:
usually games where you have a pvp option and the only thing to do when you're 60 other then do instances is pvp, yes, the point of the game is pvp

**edit**

also, it's fucking warcraft. when has fighting someone not been the point of the game?
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If you actually take a look at all games, you'll see 98% of them are about fighting something. Aliens, robots, mutants, other humans, other players, CPUs, doesn't matter. You are fighting something when you are playing a game, CPU or human.

If the entire 100% point was fighting other players, then it would simply be a MMOFPS. But we all saw how well that worked out... The truth is it is still a MMORPG at heart. The reason for the PvP is that Blizzard saw a "need" for it that was lacking in other MMORPGs and attempted to fill it. Because filling a need would increase users, and that means increased profits. So they appealed to a different kind of user by opening up their version of PvP. And for the most part it did work, the most full servers are usually PvP servers and most complaints/feedback are with the intent of PvP. When people complained about the Seal of the Crusader on their paladins it wasn't about to better PvE was it? No, they wanted to be more effective at PvP.

But it wasn't made strictly for PvP, that was never the original point of an MMORPG. Blizzard decided to add to it's user base by offering that, and now it's pretty much a beast out of control. As shown by the whole "lack of incentive" in PvP barring bullying/bragging rights.

If they had wanted to make it specifically for player on player they simply would have made another RTS game, but they didn't. Besides if you look at it why are lvl 60s bored? Lack of content, but do you really NEED content if all you want to do is fight other players all the time?
 
Sojourn said:
Silverpine counters Redridge.. so that's 3.

Swamp of Sorrows has no Alliance flightpath, and is primarily a Horde area excluding the Temple.
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Nobody really goes there until post 40 when everyone has a mount. I've tried questing there and there are really very few quests to do there for Horde. It is one of the few areas that is Horde favored though.
Barrens is also similar to Redridge -and- Duskwood. (look at the levels)
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Questing in the Barrens makes me want to gouge my eyes out.
Thousand Needles is a Horde area (omg.. Alliance have a FP.. that must mean it's neutral.. they have no real quests there)
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Where is the Horde FP in Duskwood and Redridge making it easy for Horde to get there?

Alliance has no city in STV. They have a neutral town. Horde has Grom Gol. Believe me, it makes a difference. That rebel camp is shit.
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Rebel camp isn't neutral. I tried to go there and got killed by the guards.
Of course lore is heavily favored. What the fuck are you smoking, dude? The Undead are NEW. They didn't exist 5 years ago (in game terms) and now they do. What kind of lore would the Orcs have? They don't even come from this world. So, omg.. the Dwarves and Humans have a fairly fleshed out history.. Gnomes don't, and neither do Night Elves.

Need I go on? :p
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Orcs have about as much lore as humans. Undead should have similar lore backgrounds as humans since they are former humans. Tauren are just as new as Night Elves. Night Elves have a huge backstory from being evolved from Trolls to the Moon Wells, High Elves, the Naga, the original guys who summoned the Burning Legion, Satyrs and more. Night Elves have LOTS of story. Gnomes have Gnomeregan and Trolls have... a few islands that you go to for a few level 8 quests? Trolls seem like they should have a lot of backstory and everything considering that they had a huge civilization but they don't really.
 
Sojourn said:
I agree with both of those. But 2-3 things does not equal a horrible imbalance, and that is exactly what I am arguing. I don't think it's balanced, but many of the Horde players make it sound like it's such a horrible experience to be Horde, while Alliance have it easy.. and that's just bullshit.

I'd love to see Onyxia for Horde fixed, or better yet, make it more difficult for Alliance. Hillsbrad and Stromgarde are good examples of imbalance.. I won't say they are ridiculously imbalanced (while Onyxia's key certainly is) but they are certainly tougher for the Horde side.
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Stromgarde is rediculous. Half of it is an Alliance TOWN with GUARDS. Horde have several quests there that require them to kill elite Syndicate mobs. Alliance can hide behind the guards until the Horde are fighting elite mobs then come out and kill them. When I was attempting to quest there I actually formed a raid group with about 15 people in the area to try to kill the Alliance there. That was when I found out they had a fucking town there.
 
It comes down to choosing between a few things.

1. Orcs with broken traits and abilities that kill you.
2. Trolls with useless traits (THROWING SPECIALTY?) and abilities quite likely to get you killed (berserking).
3. Tauren with good traits and abilities but being stuck forever on a Kodo (for the time being).
4. Undead with good traits and abilities (except cannibalize which is useful only as an emote) and the best looking mounts in the game.

So for me it always came down to Undead unless it was a class that Undead couldn't be in which case I would be Tauren.

I'm not saying that any abilities aren't too powerful or not. I'm just explaining why the majority of Horde players are UD or Tauren. Note I do think that Alliance traits need to be buffed up some for the most part.
 
will of the forsaken is good against the fear casters. its better than escape artist of course. its the best for rogues.

that and warstomp or whatever for taurens are the only useful racial skills. passive's mostly suck with the exception of orcs being able to get higher axe skill (comes in handy for warriors/shamans)
 
i would trade will of the forsaken for the ability to stand at knee level and hide in areas no horde can.

trying to keep track of 2-3 midgets running around up close fucking sucks
 
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