WHERE ARE THE ron PAUL TARDS?!!? rofl..

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/opinion/sunday/sundown-in-america.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

The Dow Jones and Standard & Poor’s 500 indexes reached record highs on Thursday, having completely erased the losses since the stock market’s last peak, in 2007. But instead of cheering, we should be very afraid.

Over the last 13 years, the stock market has twice crashed and touched off a recession: American households lost $5 trillion in the 2000 dot-com bust and more than $7 trillion in the 2007 housing crash. Sooner or later — within a few years, I predict — this latest Wall Street bubble, inflated by an egregious flood of phony money from the Federal Reserve rather than real economic gains, will explode, too
 
BlueSoxSWJ said:
All this really comes down to the equation MV=PY. M is the money supply, V is the velocity of money, P is the price level, Y is real economic production.

Paultards/Austrians assume an increase in M must result in an identical increase in P. The idea that banks might just stick that money in idle reserves, thus lowering V and not transmitting to the PY side, is just beyond their comprehension. Hence why QE must be leading to hyperinflation, if only we could find it, or maybe it's just on a lag and we'll have 100% annual inflation any day now. Austrians pretend Japan does not exist, because otherwise their heads would explode from the cognitive dissonance of a country exploding its money supply and yet somehow experiencing deflation.

Monetarists assume an increase in M must result in an increase to both P and Y. They don't really exist anymore because their policy recommendations don't conform to either the Democratic or Republican preferred policies, so they don't get funding. Monetarists believe that monetary policy is always and everywhere sufficient to moderate the business cycle and restore full employment with ordinary measures, thus making fiscal policy unnecessary. If you find one of these people shouting into the darkness, they'll likely be saying something like "Bernanke could fix everything, if only he'd follow MY advice." Some NGDP-targeting advocates arguably fall into this category.

Keynesianism looks at the IS-LM curves and concludes that the demand for money to borrow and spend is lower than the supply of savings even at an interest rate of zero, and conclude that an increase in M will mostly result in a fall in V. Hence, any impact on Y must come from fiscal policy, not monetary policy. Of course, the IS-LM curves are dynamic, not static, so the ineffectiveness of monetary policy, and the resulting effectiveness of fiscal policy, is a product of the current circumstances, not a permanent thing. The idea of policy recommendations changing based on changing economic circumstances is too difficult for most conservatives to handle, so you will often find them battling strawmen Keynesians, who believe that government should always and everywhere pursue fiscal stimulus, a position taken by zero actual economists.
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Holy shit, again BlueSox owns thread. Read this quote slowly
 
The U.S. has a boom/bust economy and following a period of growth is always a period of decline, and following our largest period of growth expect a long period of decline. 250 years of dips, recessions and depressions will show it. you guys put way to much time into analyzing this crap
 
Ender said:
Emergency bailout of wall street = proven to be a smart choice.
Emergency liquidity into the system = proven to be a smart choice.

[strike]We're[/strike]They're reaping the benefits we see all day.
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Yea, free money is great for banks or a "smart choice" for their interests. They're still reaping the benefit of it today. Something we finally agree upon!


Captain Tele said:
In droves. It's the greatest thing that has ever happened. Ask all the indebted nations in the EU if you want to see what such prosperity feels like. Or Japan who is almost 300% of Debt to GDP and still in economic stagnation how great multiple lost decades feel, because soon enough we are going to find out ourselves.

Only those dumb bastards (and you), who haven't already learned from their mistake, celebrate what we are doing right now.
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You have to realize something here: they're being educated by bankers' theory. It's not a mistake that they'll one day "learn from." It's exactly what they're taught by bankers. It's like being taught that fire isn't hot. It's not a mistake to burn yourself afterwards. It's intended. Banks never suffer.

BlueSoxSWJ said:
The idea of policy recommendations changing based on changing economic circumstances is too difficult for most conservatives to handle, so you will often find them battling strawmen Keynesians, who believe that government should always and everywhere pursue fiscal stimulus, a position taken by zero actual economists.
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:rofl: :cry: :rofl: :cry: :rofl:

Quite possibly... no, definitely the biggest bullshit economics statement ever made on TW. That's definitely an achievement.

"ZERO actual economists believe in government intervention/spending/stimulus!"

You heard it here first, folks! :rofl: Christ almighty... I sincerely believe you actually believe what you're saying.
 
Validuz said:
Quite possibly... no, definitely the biggest bullshit economics statement ever made on TW. That's definitely an achievement.

"ZERO actual economists believe in government intervention/spending/stimulus!"

You heard it here first, folks! :rofl: Christ almighty... I sincerely believe you actually believe what you're saying.
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lol @ validuz's reading comprehension level
 
JoMo said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/opinion/sunday/sundown-in-america.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

The Dow Jones and Standard & Poor’s 500 indexes reached record highs on Thursday, having completely erased the losses since the stock market’s last peak, in 2007. But instead of cheering, we should be very afraid.

Over the last 13 years, the stock market has twice crashed and touched off a recession: American households lost $5 trillion in the 2000 dot-com bust and more than $7 trillion in the 2007 housing crash. Sooner or later — within a few years, I predict — this latest Wall Street bubble, inflated by an egregious flood of phony money from the Federal Reserve rather than real economic gains, will explode, too
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You're going to take a walk in the rain and you're going to get wet, I predict.
 
Ixiterra said:
lol @ validuz's reading comprehension level
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Dumbshit libtards defending dumbshit libtards. I understood it just fine. Apparently you didn't.

He's claiming real Keynesian economists don't always (nonsense qualifier, 99.999999999% of the time isn't "always" -- people who don't have a leg to stand on use wiggle wording) believe in government stimulus as a response.

It's absolute bullshit. The idea that Keynesian economists' policy recommendations change based off of changing circumstances is 100% true, but their response is almost always (notice the difference) the same; government intervention/spending.

The entire economic theory is based off of being able to magically control the market via the government. It's nothing but a perfect system for funneling money from the middle-class and poor to the rich (banks, etc.).

---

Vanster said:
I don't even read his posts any more.
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You're thoroughly embarrassed every attempt you make at contradicting anything I say. So yeah, I'd imagine you would start to ignore them. That's natural course of action for emasculated pussies whose wives leave them for other real men.
 
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Validuz said:
The entire economic theory is based off of being able to magically control the market via the government. It's nothing but a perfect system for funneling money from the middle-class and poor to the rich (banks, etc.).
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Newsflash: the money is already funneled from the middle-class and poor to the rich via banks, the government doesn't have to do anything. When things do inevitably go south under this scenario, the government "stimulates" the economy by spending--money which often hits the middle and lower classes first or at the same time as the upper class. However, because big banks and corps tend to steer political interest, this money is often allocated in ways that will eventually trickle it back up (crony capitalism), but in the mean time the economy can move. Right now, because of a complete collapse of credit, the government spends to the middle and lower while the fed prints to the upper-upper so that the rightful balance is not upset too greatly [/sarcasm].

Except, for the last 4 decades or so, the government spends too much in both good and bad times. Keynesian economics is often confused by dimwits like you to be what the US does today when it is rather quite a misrepresentation of it. Not to say that Keynesian economics is the right path or anything, but it is most certainly not the fiscal policy that is being employed here.
 
when money is created out of thin air it devalues the money you have, and you are not part of the club with access to the money coming out of thin air, wealth is being massively transferred away from our control

Less wealth = less resource utilization in developed countries
more wealth = lower birth rate in developing countries

I believe there's a worldwide program to shift the wealth away from the population to the oligarchy in an effort to, from the view of the perpetrators, keep the rabble from destroying the planet with excesses that the planet cant afford. Their answer is impoverish the "resource sapping" population on multiple fronts, inflation of their currencies being only one. As if it's their planet and we're the problem, not the commercial profit driven paridgm that encourages waste at every turn that put them in the lofty position of wealth and control that they are in, in the first place.
 
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