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shadoh210
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1 - 08-01-2020, 15:33
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i asked bugs about the possibility of him recreating TD and putting it on his server, since the move to dallas has left arghs feeling jankier than ever and krayvok is unwilling to share the source now that lestat is gone. bugs told me to write up how the game functions and post it here so that people can point out if i got anything wrong or left anything out.

Team Duel Flow

Team Duel (TD) is a team game mode based on Duel. Two teams fight to the death in round based combat, the first team to win 10 (default) rounds wins the game. Rounds are won by the team which manages to eliminate all of the opposing team's players.

Using the tab menu, players can create a team and name it whatever they like.
Once two players have made teams, these leaders can optionally: Set their team's skin, lock their team (making it invite only), invite players to their team, and issue challenges to other captains, all through the tab menu.
Challenges

When there are at least two teams, team leaders are able to issue challenges for TD. There are a few options for challenges.
1. Rounds: Usually TDs are played to 10 rounds, which means a maximum number of 19 rounds for the closest games (10-9). But team leaders can issue challenges for 4, 5, 10, and 20 rounds if they wish.
2. Weapons: The default loadout for TD weapons is Disc, Grenade Launcher, Plasma. Leaders can set the weapons to whatever they like, for example Disc only, Blaster Laser Elf, Mortars, etc. The amount of ammo per weapon can be set by leaders, infinite disc ammo is common but you can also set ammo to .5 which is sometimes done for large games when 10 nades per player is too spammy. Up to the leaders to decide loadouts and ammo.
3. Packs: Energy Pack is the default but if you want to have other packs it is an option.
4. Armor: Light armor is default, but it is possible to use others.
When a challenge is issued there will be a popup message in server and the leader that was challenged will be able to accept, or edit and resend the challenge. Once a challenge is accepted, TD starts and players will spawn, immobile. The leaders will both have to ready up (press fire) and then the game will start.

All of these options can be left to player choice, in which case players can edit their loadout through the tab menu.

TD Game

Players spawn on the map facing opposite each other. There is a brief invulnerability period where time counts down until players are able to be damaged, to prevent cheap shots. Teams will fight until one side is eliminated, and the team with surviving players will win the round. The next round will then begin and players will be reset to new spawns.

When a player is killed they will remain in observer until the next round starts.

If it is a 1v1 situation and both players die then the team with the player who died last is considered to have won the round.

Leaders can call a timeout if they need to, kick players off their team, and offer player trades through the tab menu. If both teams are unlocked then any player trades are automatically accepted.

Stats

Statistics displayed on the objective screen are Kills, Deaths, Ratio (KDR), Midairs (per weapon), Farthest MA, Hits (per weapon), Assists, and Damage.

Assists are awarded to any player doing damage above a certain threshold to an enemy who is then killed by another player.

An example of the objective screen in TD here:

An album showing how this all looks in game: Imgur: The magic of the Internet
 
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Krayvok
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2 - 08-01-2020, 17:20
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I will rewrite Arghs from the bottom up this winter.
 
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bugs_
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3 - 08-01-2020, 19:29
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Teams question -

so a duel is between two teams and only two teams?

can there be more than two teams on the server waiting for a duel?
 
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shadoh210
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4 - 08-01-2020, 20:57
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there can be multiple tds happening. and there is multi-team td in arghs but its buggy and not really used.

some stuff i forgot in the op: you spawn with beacons, hand nades, and target laser. teams spawn facing each other. when going out of bounds players get a warning to go back to the mission area, and eventually take damage
 
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bugs_
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5 - 08-05-2020, 13:22
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any differences from CTF defaults are good items to mention

what is the time delay between rounds?

is there a time limit on a round or does it go until one team is all dead?

how many beacons in the loadout?

if ammo packs are selected does this increase beacons, hand grenades, etc in the loadout?

i assume there are no deployables allowed in the loadout

quantify the "brief invulnerability period" - how many seconds is this?

again - quantify the "certain threshold" of damage that counts as an assist

has the target laser been modified to not consume energy?

has the chain gun been nerfed?

we will need to quantify how many seconds you get to be OOB before taking damage and how much damage you take per second when OOB

more questions to come
 
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shadoh210
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6 - 08-05-2020, 14:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugs_ View Post
any differences from CTF defaults are good items to mention

what is the time delay between rounds?

is there a time limit on a round or does it go until one team is all dead?

how many beacons in the loadout?

if ammo packs are selected does this increase beacons, hand grenades, etc in the loadout?

i assume there are no deployables allowed in the loadout

quantify the "brief invulnerability period" - how many seconds is this?

again - quantify the "certain threshold" of damage that counts as an assist

has the target laser been modified to not consume energy?

has the chain gun been nerfed?

we will need to quantify how many seconds you get to be OOB before taking damage and how much damage you take per second when OOB

more questions to come
I'll ask some regulars but I can't think of any differences really. Except there are sensor(s) in the sky so that you can see people on radar at all times. You get 3 beacons the same as in base CTF/LT. Ammo packs do increase beacons and hand nades just like base. Cameras are actually a selectable pack but this is just for trolling purposes. No turrets or pulse sensors, or anything like that.


After a challenge is accepted the teams spawn facing each other, immobile. Both leaders have to ready up (fire) for the match to start. A 5 second countdown begins and the players remain stationary during this time. Since there is this countdown already the first round only has a 1 second invuln period. All subsequent rounds the invulnerability period lasts 5 seconds and players can move around freely during this time, unlike the first round.

Imgur: The magic of the Internet


I don't think there is a threshold of damage that counts as an assist. I think anyone that damages a player who is then killed just gets an assist. Even TK assists are tracked, but I'm not sure if they count for the scoreboard.

There is no time limit on rounds. They go until a team is eliminated.

The target laser consumes energy and the chaingun is unnerfed. Both of these should be changed IMO. Its just agreed upon not to use CG since its unnerfed. Nobody will complain if the damage is changed to LT levels.

Lestat was playing around with OOB damage, it hasn't been consistent. It used to be you took damage after ten seconds (iirc), not sure what it is now I think most people agree it should be reverted back to ten seconds. The point is to punish people for running too far and to encourage getting in the mix and fighting. Getting exactly the same numbers or not isn't going to make or break anyone's experience.
 
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Last edited by shadoh210; 08-05-2020 at 14:39..
Gotchyawallet
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7 - 08-05-2020, 14:54
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- I would like to mention first off, everything from loadouts to roundcount to map/terrain used is selected through the tab menu. Loadouts can be chosen and restricted through challenge menu, as well as options for 'players choice' on all loadout variables.
Will post screenshots of tab menu challenge options.

- These are also setup through Loadout option for each player in tab. Every weapon and pack and armor is an option. Just like in regular duel mod.

- Weapon ammo is also selected. Most common selections are 'Disc only', which gives everyone 10x ammo and only a disc launcher, E-Pack and Light armor; or - Disc 10x, Plasma - Normal ammo, Grenade Launcher - half ammo (to reduce spamming), E-pack and/or players choice for packs ( for some maps shield is preferrable ), Light armor.

- Hand grenades ( 5 ), beacons ( 3 ), repair kit ( 1 ) and target laser are always available by default to any options/loadout. And standard increases for ammo pack selection.

- Round count is selected in challenge menu. 10 being the most common. 5 rounds usually for testing maps/loadouts we don't normally use or to see if anyone will be scummy with cg/sniping.

- CG 100% needs to be nerfed, maybe even more so than LT norms. Nobody uses it or cares for it, so if the randoms that join once and just hold cg the whole time in medium and shield want to do that, let them but not at the cost of the game or admins having to step in or restrict choices. It's much easier to just use players choice or inventories, we just don't get to often because of CG.

- OOB damage is also very important. I assume the standard was 10 seconds, I remember it being much quicker back in the arena days. I don't think anyone would mind 10 seconds, however would very much like if you could make it optional how much time before punishment. It's there to prevent people from going OOB. The damage in most arena games is set to ' $Arena::OOBDamageIncremen ts = 0.07;
$OOBDamageType = 320; ' I know very little about modding or what these mean, but I do remember it being very punishing.

- Fall dmg has apparently been nerfed as well. I'm not a TD player, I was arena, so I know less about this mechanic. However, I've been told that Lestat nerfed fall damage for some reason. Modest Moledal will know more.

- Challenge -

- Loadout Options -


- Custom Options -


- Ammo Options -


- Will update/write more when I have more brain poewr. Still drinking cofffee.
 
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Last edited by Gotchyawallet; 08-05-2020 at 15:21..
shadoh210
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8 - 08-05-2020, 15:01
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Oh yeah, disc only is x100 not x10 and fall damage is nerfed whenever a player is below 10% health. You take significantly less fall damage in this state, but I have no idea exactly how much less. It's still possible to crater just much harder.

and the map doesn't change when a TD is in progress
 
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Last edited by shadoh210; 08-05-2020 at 18:58..
bugs_
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9 - 08-05-2020, 20:29
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Suppose that during a round a player on team 1 drops.

Is this considered a kill? If so who gets the credit?

If there are members of the team still connected what happens? Is the duel considered over?

Are suicides allowed and how are they scored?
 
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gambit1983
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10 - 08-05-2020, 23:26
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Nerf Cg and have a vote to enable/disable laser rifle or nerf lasers all together imo
 
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shadoh210
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11 - 08-05-2020, 23:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugs_ View Post
Suppose that during a round a player on team 1 drops.

Is this considered a kill? If so who gets the credit?

If there are members of the team still connected what happens? Is the duel considered over?

Are suicides allowed and how are they scored?
Players dropping is not considered a kill. If they are the only player alive on their team and drop then the round will just end in a win for the other team.

K'ing out is in the game, but only because every once in a while someone will spawn beneath the terrain and not register as OOB, or they fell through a hole in the map or something. If it wasn't for this I don't think K'ing out would be allowed. Suicides, however they happen, give the player 1 death and thats it. No special scoring.

On the other hand, teamkills give the teamkiller a death and the person that got TKed does not get a death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gambit1983 View Post
Nerf Cg and have a vote to enable/disable laser rifle or nerf lasers all together imo
100% agree. I also agree with wallet that it would be nice to have some options for OOB in the challenge menu.
 
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vamp
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12 - 08-05-2020, 23:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugs_ View Post
Suppose that during a round a player on team 1 drops.

Is this considered a kill? If so who gets the credit?

If there are members of the team still connected what happens? Is the duel considered over?

Are suicides allowed and how are they scored?


Not considered a kill, no one gets credit

the round still goes on

suicides are allowed, just counted as a death thats it

i also agree that cg for sure needs a nerf and maybe laser rifle just a tiny bit , these weapons are usually banned and frowned upon when we play arena, an admin option to adjust the damage or lock them from inventories would be cool but whatever is easier
 
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uno
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13 - 08-06-2020, 01:00
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best thread on tw right now.
 
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gambit1983
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14 - 08-06-2020, 01:55
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You would probably want deathmatch and duel in there as well...having three modes wrapped together helped keep arghs alive for some long imo. Just my 2 cents
 
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gambit1983
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15 - 08-06-2020, 02:51
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Also bugs..if you look at the arena mod, itís very close to team duel
 
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rtcll
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16 - 08-06-2020, 07:06
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Well I think the 'TD' regulars already answered most of the questions here. Shadoh asked me to post what I thought about cg/laser nerfs or something like that. Truthfully, cg has never been accepted in any TD or arena game so I don't even want to talk about nerfing the damage (this would be the least important thing to focus on imo when re-writing TD).

In TD, we nearly always play disc only, which is a selection the team captain makes when they're about to send the challenge and it's essentially unlimited discs (something over 100). Eventually we'll get a group of people that want to play arena and use the inventory stations. Again this is usually chill and agreed upon ppl in server, but if you made the simple limit of 1 laser rifle per team, I think it'd be done and dusted.

I would just recommend you play just a match or two one night just to get a simple feel for it bugs; it's nothing complex when it comes down to it.

Idk why I was asked to write about cg & laser when the mod itself is the only important thing, 97% of games are disc only. If you want any more detailed answers or you want to see a quick example of a td, just hit us up in disc and we'll stage something real quick.

Duel/TD are the two things that need to be fixed more than anything. DM doesn't matter and arena can come afterwards.
 
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bugs_
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17 - 08-06-2020, 12:48
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Lets try to keep new feature requests out of this thread. I'd like to focus on the details (specification) of the existing TD implementation.

so no weapons are nerfed in the current TD

does the menu system restrict the number of weapons to 3 for all armor classes or does it permit an increased number of weapons for the higher armor classes?

is there a vote menu available to ordinary players during duel or is that disabled during duel?

are there restrictions to chat during duel?
 
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shadoh210
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18 - 08-06-2020, 14:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugs_ View Post
Lets try to keep new feature requests out of this thread. I'd like to focus on the details (specification) of the existing TD implementation.

so no weapons are nerfed in the current TD

does the menu system restrict the number of weapons to 3 for all armor classes or does it permit an increased number of weapons for the higher armor classes?

is there a vote menu available to ordinary players during duel or is that disabled during duel?

are there restrictions to chat during duel?
It's the same as base. Mediums can hold 4 weapons, heavies can have 5. Nobody uses medium or heavy ever though. TD is light armor 100% of the time

Players can vote freely to kick other players or change the map.

No chat restrictions
 
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Exodus
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19 - 08-10-2020, 16:19
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