i like the lance because it's unique, and it's something that people can excel at. I wouldn't mind if they back lance damage on heavies was reduced to somewhere where it'd take a lance and a disk to kill a heavy, but a change like that would probably require a slight reduction in firing delay.
HOw about no one kill weapons in T:V
- Thread starter {A} PR24
- Start date
Father Ruckus
Veteran XX
[MiSFiT-RG-] said:
keep satchels, ditch the rest
Yeah. In Siege/DnD/Assualt style games where one attacks an objective, satchels were REALLY useful. I'd love to see them come back in T:V for use in such an objective oriented gametype.
Successful gametypes in order of popularity:
CTF
Arena
Duel
Siege/Assualt/DnD
Rabbit
Team Rabbit
Successful gametypes in order of popularity:
CTF
Arena
Duel
Siege/Assualt/DnD
Rabbit
Team Rabbit
commonsense said:
Well think about it for a second. A heavy carrys heavy assult weapons so they should give more damage.
A light should not have any weapons that can generate more power then the heavy can. Besides the lights have mine disking so they should not have a one shot one kill weapon too.
[MiSFiT-RG-] said:
Well Satchels would not be as bad imo. They are a defensive tool not a one shot kill for say. The satchel is stationary and once it's deployed the player has to go by it to get killed.
A SL is mobel and ready to kill in a split sec and has no deploy time.
Missles have flairs to counter, they are not extreamly useful against players that often.
I enjoyed using the lance. I used it on heavies and lights alike, from all manner of angles.
Other than its obvious ability to kill in one hit from behind, its best function in combat I found was its ability to 'throw' the target and disorientate them somewhat, thus (hopefully) gaining you an advantage.
Toward the end, my main (light) load out included the lance instead of the CG.
I see why it is viewed poorly, but it was useful as hell for alot of things, especially cappers.
If the Lance is to make T:V, I would like to see its actual damage decreased, (no one-shot kills) but its kickback bumped up. Maybe even significantly.
My $0.02
Other than its obvious ability to kill in one hit from behind, its best function in combat I found was its ability to 'throw' the target and disorientate them somewhat, thus (hopefully) gaining you an advantage.
Toward the end, my main (light) load out included the lance instead of the CG.
I see why it is viewed poorly, but it was useful as hell for alot of things, especially cappers.
If the Lance is to make T:V, I would like to see its actual damage decreased, (no one-shot kills) but its kickback bumped up. Maybe even significantly.
My $0.02
How about concentrating on making things fun, rather than worrying about the effectiveness?
Elf, SL, and Sniping are not fun at all.
Sniping and Elfing are by far the worst of all, since they destroy the #1 thing which makes Tribes fun: Fast chases.
SL isn't a big deal (imho), you should be avoiding it through speed anyway.
Elf, SL, and Sniping are not fun at all.
Sniping and Elfing are by far the worst of all, since they destroy the #1 thing which makes Tribes fun: Fast chases.
SL isn't a big deal (imho), you should be avoiding it through speed anyway.
Void|deadjawa
Veteran X
They are useful but they are cheap as hell. It takes 2 discs to kill them so its basically like an unkillable mine when its put on the flag. It can single handedly take the fun out of a game.Zoolooman said:
Void|deadjawa
Veteran X
Zoolooman said:
Well I guess my feeling is that if its unbalanced for one play type, its unbalanced for another. It might be a little less obvious in another playtype though.
The satchel is dfferent to shocklance/minedisk/motar/any one shot kill because it is a one shot deal. You got to carry the bitch somewhere, chuck it down and high tail it or get owned yourself.
It is a good additive, i hope they have something of its elk in T:V. It shouldn't be the same as a mine to destroy, that is plain silly. 2 disks or whatever it is now is fine IMO.
It is a good additive, i hope they have something of its elk in T:V. It shouldn't be the same as a mine to destroy, that is plain silly. 2 disks or whatever it is now is fine IMO.
Void|deadjawa
Veteran X
Beren said:
Void|deadjawa
Veteran X
Void|deadjawa said:
Except the balance of a weapon depends on how it reacts with a gametype. My thesis is that the nature of the objective effects the usefulness of a weapon. Here's a breakdown.
Weapon Types:
Hitscan: A shot weapon, either automatic or sniping, in which a there is no delay between when you shoot and when the round does damage. This effectively means the weapon will always do damage where you pointed your cursor. Example Tribes weapons: laser rifle. Example UT2K3 weapons: shock rifle, lightning gun.
Prediction: A shot weapon, either automatic or single shot, in which there is a delay between when you shoot and when the round does damage. This effectively means the weapon will do damage after a period of time, meaning you have to aim ahead. Example Tribes weapons: disc launcher, chaingun, grenade launcher, mortar, blaster, plasma gun, shocklance, hand grenades. Example UT2K3 weapons: machinegun, assualt rifle, rocket launcher, plasma gun (primary), bio rifle (projectile), shock ball, flak gun.
Beam: A stream weapon, in which a person generates something - such as a beam, stream, etc - that must then be moved onto the target or through the target to do damage. Example Tribes weapons: none. Example UT weapons: plasma gun (secondary). Example Q3A weapon: lightning gun.
Melee: A weapon that is done between contact of players. Example Tribes weapons: none. Example UT2K3 weapons: shield gun.
Autoaim: A weapon that aims for you. You simply have to fire. Example Tribes weapons: ELF, missile launcher, missle/ELF turrets. Example UT2K3 weapons: none.
Passive: A weapon that once released is then completely out of control, and will do it's own activity based on it's rules. Example Tribes weapons: Mines, most turrets. Example Half-Life weapon: laser tripwire bombs, snarks.
Remote: A weapon that once released is used remotely from first person perspective. Example Tribes weapons: Satchel.
Weapon Ranges:
Contact - You and the opponent touch.
Arm's Reach - You and the opponent can sneeze on each other. Splash damage on a disc launcher will hurt you both.
Short - You and the opponent can still throw shoes at each other accurately. Safe from small splash damages.
Medium - You and the opponent would miss throwing shoes. Safe from larger splash damages.
Long - You and the opponent can't throw shoes this far. Relatively safe from slower prediction weapons.
Short Sniping - You can still peg him with basic weapons, though you wish you had a sniper rifle.
Long sniping - You can see him, but only hitscan weapons that don't spread will do the job.
Extreme - You can't even see your opponent. You cheated to hit him out here or the weapon designer was on crack when he came up with this piece of shit.
Infinite - Nomatter where you go, for some reason, a weapon is still hitting you. Fucking stupid.
Gametypes:
Dynamic Objective Oriented: Objective(s) move around the map. Distances are larger and speed + longer ranged weaponry is generally needed if shorter ranged weapons fail to stop them when the objective is still. Offense and defense are thinned out by the motions.
Static Objective Oriented: Objective(s) sit around, waiting to be taken/destroyed/painted. Distances are various, but shorter ranged weapons are always more popular because fighting takes place around the objectives, which means a lot of D and O close and concentrated. All the O knows where to go and all the D knows where to stand.
Player Oriented: Objectives are the other players. Shoot them, save them, whatever. A weapons sheer kills per a minute power applies most often here.
Chart Breakdown for Dynamic Objective Oriented gametypes:
Justification:
Hitscan weapons are more difficult to use in up close situations where high damage, often concussive prediction based weapons get to dominate. They are balanced, but are not preferable to other varieties. As the distance increases, the role of hitscan weapons (long distance combat) comes into play. At extreme and infinite distances, you've badly designed a hitscan weapon if it is effective. Since objectives that move around means a lot of long range fighting takes place, hitscan weapons are popular.
Autoaim and remote weapons can be balanced at shorter ranges, but as ranges increase the weapons either become imbalanced (no skill one way attacks of extreme size) or useless to make up for the extreme power of skilless aiming. Generally, unless these weapons are overpowered, they become useless as distances quickly increase (as is bound to happen in dynamic objective gametypes).
Prediction weapons balance out at all the short to medium distances, and a few even reach into the long ranges in limited roles while staying balanced. As you move closer to the objectives, these dominate. They also dominate the secondary static objectives such as generators.
Beam and melee weapons balance the same in every game.
Passive weapons are balanced as long as ranges are short, though they play a lesser role than all other active weapons.
Chart Breakdown for Static Objective Gametypes:
Justification:
In static objectives, one finds the O advantage increases greatly, as life is cheap: the objective won't run away while they respawn and try again. The defense loses the time to fight at a distance, and hitscan weapons lose the fun they had. At the closer distances prediction based weapons (if designed well) are victorious, as players look for the most clean and massive damage output.
Remote weapons become balanced and fun at close ranges as long as they can't be used very quickly. Mostly used as a catch for O that manages to filter through the D towards the objective. As a weapon, they are preventable after the first run: you simply shoot and destroy it the second time through with some high explosives.
Note on player based objectives: Whatever kills best here wins. Balance doesn't matter. It's whomever can kill more first. Only by playing can specific weapons reveal their ease of use in slaughtering the enemy.
Conclusion:
Some types of weapons balance differently depending on the type of gametype. An example is Classic's sticky satchel: while an irritating and stupid addition to CTF, it was a very useful and balanced tool in Siege. In the right type of games and maps, remote weapons can be useful.