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Amadeus
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461 - 10-26-2020, 20:11
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Originally Posted by Pagy View Post
we have laws. And we have brains. I was raised catholic and would equate religious belief with fairy tales so if i made it so can u.
yes they are allowed to enroll their children in swimming lessons, camp and yes, church stuff.
There are also people who have been atheist for decades, but still wake up at night with the fear of hell as a result of their childhood religious indoctrination.

So again: what good reason is there to perpetuate those beliefs, if all of the benefits can be achieved without them?
 
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amRam
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462 - 10-26-2020, 20:25
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Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
There are also people who have been atheist for decades, but still wake up at night with the fear of hell as a result of their childhood religious indoctrination.

So again: what good reason is there to perpetuate those beliefs, if all of the benefits can be achieved without them?
There's only one way to raise children and thats amapedo's way. Nevermind that silly god stuff its only been around for like a hundred thousand years, no track record...

New age atheism, now THERE is a concept we know for sure works and can't possibly backfire at all.
 
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Pagy
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463 - 10-26-2020, 20:40
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Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
There are also people who have been atheist for decades, but still wake up at night with the fear of hell as a result of their childhood religious indoctrination.
they sound like pussies
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
So again: what good reason is there to perpetuate those beliefs, if all of the benefits can be achieved without them?
because people have freedom of thought and dont owe you an explanation
 
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The Pumpkin King
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464 - 10-26-2020, 21:14
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Woh, I walked into the Atheist bro hour.

I love this emotional shift in the mood...
 
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samUwell
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465 - 10-26-2020, 21:22
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Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
And should they be allowed to inflict those potentially self-harmful beliefs on others? Their children for instance? Is that fair to the children?
Wow...
 
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Groove
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Old
466 - 10-26-2020, 21:27
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i m not n atheist

i worship the sun disc god ra

he uses his disc 2 midair the sky every day
 
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The Pumpkin King
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467 - 10-26-2020, 21:59
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Originally Posted by Groove View Post
i m not n atheist

i worship the sun disc god ra

he uses his disc 2 midair the sky every day
I am sad that there has not been a better game, though lately I am very much so enjoying Mordhau and Squad with friends.

You should try them Groove.

I did however, take a crap on the lawn to set things up for my future offspring. I am hoping the poopy will develop over time into something of superior intelligence that can make a better game than tribes.

Also this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te3aShKST1A
 
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Last edited by The Pumpkin King; 10-26-2020 at 23:01.. Reason: Removed Bad Information from quoted random youtube stranger...
MC Hamster
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468 - 10-26-2020, 22:14
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Originally Posted by The Pumpkin King View Post
You present the fossil record; but did not speak to how this long period is arrived at?

Fossils are found in a particular layer or layers.....so the age of the fossil is a given. The layer is a billion years old, the fossil must also be....easy....how do we know the age of the rock layer? We date that by the fossils found within.....

Wait excuse me, did you say you know the age of the rock by the fossils found in it?
There's either a deliberate obfuscation or otherwise a distinct lack of understanding there. Fossils are primarily dated by radiometric (aka 'carbon') dating - ie examining the levels of radioactive isotopes and their levels of decay, which happens at known rates and effectively forms a clock. That can come from the fossils themselves or from the rocks in which they are found (which is obviously less precise).

Relative dating (as you describe) is a secondary method, where rock strata and the fossils within them are matched to samples which have already been dated radiometrically.

So.... there's either a deliberate and knowing attempt to misinform the audience, or a deliberate attempt to remain uneducated as to the actual facts of relevance - you can't be presenting things like this if you haven't actually checked your facts. Neither of which is particularly surprising in the context of an evangelical 'debate'.
 
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NoGodForMe
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469 - 10-26-2020, 22:25
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Originally Posted by The Pumpkin King View Post
So you are against following a story 2k years old, but perfectly fine following a story billions of years old. Makes sense to me!
The Wiki talks about it and so do a bunch of science shows in a way I can believe.
Big Bang - Wikipedia
"The model describes how the universe expanded from an initial state of extremely high density and high temperature,"

I believe it will eventually contract and do it all over again. Now, whether this is a toy in an alien's room (that would be a God), we don't know. Like a God is looking at us through his microscope that we can't see. Or has a way to see what life forms get created, watches them, then the entire thing shrinks down to a dot and the whole things repeats. It can happen whether the Alien or God is there.
Big Crunch - Wikipedia

I've also looked up web sites that show what makes up humans. It is interesting to think of how those things came together over time.
Elements in the Human Body and What They Do

What happens when we die is the question. Science hasn't figured out consciousness or memory in our brains. Do we go to another dimension? Is there enough room in the universe for all those souls if they are unique? Or is there re-incarnation here on earth? Would it be random where you end up next (Human, Ant, Bird, Dolphin, Dog, Cat). I think of these things all the time.
 
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Last edited by NoGodForMe; 10-26-2020 at 22:42..
The Pumpkin King
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470 - 10-26-2020, 23:00
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Originally Posted by MC Hamster View Post
There's either a deliberate obfuscation or otherwise a distinct lack of understanding there. Fossils are primarily dated by radiometric (aka 'carbon') dating - ie examining the levels of radioactive isotopes and their levels of decay, which happens at known rates and effectively forms a clock. That can come from the fossils themselves or from the rocks in which they are found (which is obviously less precise).

Relative dating (as you describe) is a secondary method, where rock strata and the fossils within them are matched to samples which have already been dated radiometrically.

So.... there's either a deliberate and knowing attempt to misinform the audience, or a deliberate attempt to remain uneducated as to the actual facts of relevance - you can't be presenting things like this if you haven't actually checked your facts. Neither of which is particularly surprising in the context of an evangelical 'debate'.
It was a quote from a random frustrated stranger on the internet that I found to be hilarious.

If there is an inaccuracy with one of the points he made my apologies. I suppose I should have read it in more detail before posting. I am not sure what he was referring to with that circular reasoning.

I believe in the usefulness of carbon dating as a viable tool.

Ignore the random quote from the stranger on the internet, did you watch the video of the scientist with actual information?

If you can shred anything in the video, I'd be compelled to listen.

Any insight on the Cambrian Explosion that you have to offer?

I'd be curious to know more from you since you seem knowledgeable, articulate, and interesting in normal human communication in contrast with the more emotional posters I was communicating with before.

I will remove that random internet quote, as it seems to be very bad information. Thank you.
 
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Flash
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Old
471 - 10-26-2020, 23:21
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Cliffs?
 
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The Pumpkin King
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Old
472 - 10-26-2020, 23:35
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Originally Posted by Flash View Post
Cliffs?
In the video I linked, the 2nd quote on youtube had some dude ranting that was pretty funny...
 
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Vanster
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473 - 10-26-2020, 23:37
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Originally Posted by Flash View Post
Cliffs?




How Fool's brother can just clamor on the Christian bandwagon and attempt to defend Torquemada while decrying Mohammed and the rest?

There is no way you can know how stupid people sound, else I point to Tehvul, crying for envelopment, now pointing to doctor dance, again a stranger, hoping for friends by pointing his views at theirs.

TW is the most crucible stupid, save for the Tehvul, TPK, and lets face it-- scary doctor dance, that have worried about being accepted as a placer in a long dead forum.
 
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Data
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474 - 10-26-2020, 23:42
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More drunk ramblings from TW's most proud racist, who openly hates the forum and wishes for its destruction but lacks the self control to stop coming here.
 
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Groove
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475 - 10-26-2020, 23:43
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Originally Posted by The Pumpkin King View Post
I am sad that there has not been a better game, though lately I am very much so enjoying Mordhau and Squad with friends.

You should try them Groove.
<3 ily

idk i have trouble getting into gaems these days i may have developed adhd
 
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MC Hamster
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476 - 10-27-2020, 01:30
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Originally Posted by The Pumpkin King View Post
It was a quote from a random frustrated stranger on the internet that I found to be hilarious.

If there is an inaccuracy with one of the points he made my apologies. I suppose I should have read it in more detail before posting. I am not sure what he was referring to with that circular reasoning.

I believe in the usefulness of carbon dating as a viable tool.

Ignore the random quote from the stranger on the internet, did you watch the video of the scientist with actual information?

If you can shred anything in the video, I'd be compelled to listen.

Any insight on the Cambrian Explosion that you have to offer?

I'd be curious to know more from you since you seem knowledgeable, articulate, and interesting in normal human communication in contrast with the more emotional posters I was communicating with before.

I will remove that random internet quote, as it seems to be very bad information. Thank you.
I was just skimming around a little and noticed that, wasn't planning on getting deeply involved and am not sure I feel like watching through a two hour video

As far as the Cambrian explosion goes... I'm absolutely not a palaeontologist so I couldn't add any more to the subject than you could google yourself I understand there was a dominant theory of a sudden spike in oxygen levels which has some questions around it, and some more recent theories involving the rise of a handful of pre-cambrian predators which had an understandably massive impact on an ecosystem which had never had to deal with self-defence, triggering a whole new wave of natural selection and adaptation. That would include moving beyond the flat plane of the seabed sludge in which that life had existed - tunnelling down into the sea floor sediment as well as moving up into the water column itself. The first of those actions would disrupt that microbial mat everything formerly grazed on, and the latter would expose some organisms to higher levels of oxygen away from that anaerobic zone and allow for aerobic processes to come into play.

I don't really know, and I don't think science has a definitive answer yet, either. To be fair, science rarely has anything it considers 'definitive', which is part of the beauty of it - being willing and (usually) happy to be proven wrong.

What I don't agree with though is taking that lack of understanding and saying "well, it must be God then," wiping your hands and walking away. Just because we don't have an answer yet doesn't mean that we shouldn't be striving towards a broader understanding. Down that path lies complacency and stagnation.
 
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The Pumpkin King
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Old
477 - 10-27-2020, 01:51
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Originally Posted by Vanster View Post




How Fool's brother can just clamor on the Christian bandwagon and attempt to defend Torquemada while decrying Mohammed and the rest?

There is no way you can know how stupid people sound, else I point to Tehvul, crying for envelopment, now pointing to doctor dance, again a stranger, hoping for friends by pointing his views at theirs.

TW is the most crucible stupid, save for the Tehvul, TPK, and lets face it-- scary doctor dance, that have worried about being accepted as a placer in a long dead forum.
That post read a little bit like a brief glimpse into someone tripping on shrooms in a dark cabin in the woods, however...

This is like, the first time I've gotten involved in a thread in years or something? And I did so knowing it was a complete waste of time. Havax and I yelled at one another about music for a while like half a year ago-ish, but that's been about it...

I've had a wild amount of stress at my job and this has been a great way to get my mind off it. I will take any distraction I can get at this point... This was a really fun thread indeed.

The saga of desperately seeking acceptance on an internet forum full of strangers I have never met sounds kind of epic.

I have always been an iconoclast in terms of my thoughts and ideas about the reality we live in. I know full well that me opening up about anything I believe will not gather favor. Popularity has never been a goal of mine. It is a worthless endeavor.

Telling others that you believe in the existence of God almost never makes them smile upon you, it's always been quite the opposite for me. If I was keen on others liking me as my main focus, I wouldn't bring a single word of any of this stuff up. I confess my love for my creator openly knowing that I will be attacked for it, and dismissed as a buffoon. I am happy to be tread upon for being my authentic self.

Did anyone even know that I believed in God before this thread? Nope. I generally keep it to myself for a long list of reasons. For me what is important is loving other people around me and treating them with kindness. This world has a desperate famine on love and kindness.

You claim that I would defend organized religion when you are dead wrong. I could probably rant about how much I dislike organized religion for the length of all the posts in this entire thread and I'm probably not even exaggerating. I could probably easily out-pace you in that regard.

My life was way easier when I was an Atheist and nobody ever had a single negative thing to say towards me about my worldview then. I used to invite door-knocking Christians into my home offer them drinks, and let them give me their spiel for 20 minutes. And when they were done, I would proceed to tell them calmly and politely why there is no God. One guy got so mad his face turned red and his buddy had to pull him out of my house. I couldn't understand why he couldn't control his emotions or have a calm and rational discussion. These experiences gave me very negative impressions of Christians and in many ways, I have held onto those impressions.

You accusing me of posting in this thread for "acceptance" is laughable at best.

I'm still the kid you gamed with 20 years ago dude... I just know a lot more than I did then. I also suck at video games way harder than I did back then lol. It's confusing now thinking about how good I was back in 1999. Now I generally get spanked unless I'm playing Mordhau. I don't think I can clear bronze leagues in most games anymore, I really am that bad. Feels weird. I think I am only good at Mordhau cus the hours I sank into Chivalry were just insane. I'm an old tired man getting by on raw experience.

I know that God is real. Every atom in every star, every beautiful construction that you see around, every incredible plant and animal that you lay eyes on, all of them point to God's existence. It's as obvious and plain as it could possibly be... I do not think it is even possible for it to be anymore plain.

Much love to you Vanster. Hope you doing well man.

If you are consuming drugs or liquor, maybe take it easy a bit.

Your pictures were kind of cool in a gothic creepy yet artistic way.

Much love dude...
 
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The Pumpkin King
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Old
478 - 10-27-2020, 02:13
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Originally Posted by MC Hamster View Post
I was just skimming around a little and noticed that, wasn't planning on getting deeply involved and am not sure I feel like watching through a two hour video

As far as the Cambrian explosion goes... I'm absolutely not a palaeontologist so I couldn't add any more to the subject than you could google yourself I understand there was a dominant theory of a sudden spike in oxygen levels which has some questions around it, and some more recent theories involving the rise of a handful of pre-cambrian predators which had an understandably massive impact on an ecosystem which had never had to deal with self-defence, triggering a whole new wave of natural selection and adaptation. That would include moving beyond the flat plane of the seabed sludge in which that life had existed - tunnelling down into the sea floor sediment as well as moving up into the water column itself. The first of those actions would disrupt that microbial mat everything formerly grazed on, and the latter would expose some organisms to higher levels of oxygen away from that anaerobic zone and allow for aerobic processes to come into play.

I don't really know, and I don't think science has a definitive answer yet, either. To be fair, science rarely has anything it considers 'definitive', which is part of the beauty of it - being willing and (usually) happy to be proven wrong.

What I don't agree with though is taking that lack of understanding and saying "well, it must be God then," wiping your hands and walking away. Just because we don't have an answer yet doesn't mean that we shouldn't be striving towards a broader understanding. Down that path lies complacency and stagnation.
Man, that was such an excellent post. I'm gonna have to re-read it many times.

I totally agree with what you were saying about science being 'definitive'. Science really is incredible. I look forward to the day it moves us off of this planet and into outer space. How exciting that will be.

I completely agree with you on your last point too. I have never been keen on simply wiping my hands. At the same time, the fact remains that the existence of an intelligent agent is the best explanation for a long list of things. I've never heard another explanation that even treaded towards being close to as viable. I'm not saying that is proof by any means, but I do believe it's highly sensible to believe in God.

The theory of relativity is moving into the realm of being one of our most tested theories that has held up. We keep testing it and testing it, and it yet it still holds up to scrutiny. I feel pretty safe in saying that I know it is true. I feel much the same about the concept of intelligent design. It has held up so well and stood the test of time to the point of feeling very comfortable prescribing to it.

At the same time, having been an Atheist for so long, I understand that line of thinking very well. I generally have a fun time talking with Atheists because it reminds me of good times when I was young. One of the best times of my life was when I was an Atheist.

The world is vast and marvelous though. Who knows what we will find years down the line. I believe that an intelligent agent will be waiting around every scientific corner we turn.

As for the Cambrian explosion, Darwin himself said it was quite troublesome towards his theory, and may end up thwarting it altogether. For me, looking at the explosion, it just doesn't seem to line up with what he was proposing. All those fossils, fully formed to completion appearing so suddenly? If evolution is a slow process, where did they come from? I'm not sold on Darwin's theory yet. I'd like scientists to investigate further and learn more. I think more discoveries will be made that will shine more light on it all. Until then I just remain skeptical and listen to countless people insult me. That's fine.

Thanks for that awesome post. Cheers.
 
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The Pumpkin King
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479 - 10-27-2020, 02:16
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Originally Posted by Groove View Post
<3 ily

idk i have trouble getting into gaems these days i may have developed adhd
Dude "Squad" is legit, but you need a good box to play it.

Mine is a potato cus I'm holding out for the new wave of graphics cards and it chunks so hard when lots of vehicles and smoke gets close to me.

"Monster Train" is another game that I would highly recommend.

I know how you feel. I'm not sure it's ADHD. I think we are just getting old and we've played all the same crap too many years. It's more boring now. We need more to be entertained. Gotta get on discord and have a friend to shoot the breeze with while playing.

All that new hardware is right around the corner man. I'm gonna throw down.
 
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MC Hamster
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480 - 10-27-2020, 02:17
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I don't really have a problem with people believing in God if it gives them some form of peace or comfort, if it's something that works for you, then so be it. I'll admit I probably do think a little less of people for it because I appreciate an analytical, logical mind and the concept of the 'supernatural' doesn't really fit with that for me.

To be clear: I grew up in a school with weekly church services, singing hymns and studying the bible. I've read it plenty and while I can't say I can quote verses, I'm familiar with most of it. I consider myself what might be called by some as a 'weak athiest'.. I don't believe in god, but I'm not going to come out and yell that one doesn't exist - I figure that is just a yet another dogmatic position - maybe some day we'll actually stumble on something and say "well, I guess this is what all those various people refer to as a god then", but it's not something we'll ever be able to prove does not exist - that's practically part of the definition in being "beyond our understanding".

Where I begin to object (and I'm not suggesting this of anyone) is when that belief is turned outwards, and impacts others. If you think two people shouldn't get married because your own beliefs say that's wrong, you're welcome to that thought but don't for a second think that gives you the right to stop them. I also have a huge issue with the sheer hypocrisy involved with most organised religions. From the Roman Catholics right the way through to the modern evangelical mega-churches, there is stuff in there they explain away and justify to themselves which plainly contradicts the actual teachings of the bible they profess to revere, and often cause huge amounts of harm to those they should be protecting, in doing so. There is a huge amount of self-serving in there, in direct contradiction to the self-sacrifice which is the single most fundamental, identifiable pillar on which the entire religion is based: The symbol of the cross on which their god gave his own life (sacrificed himself, to himself, to save his followers from... himself. Ok, that's all a bit weird.)

But yeah, if you find comfort in a belief in God, and you don't feel the need to impose that upon others, then know that although that's maybe a bit of a negative on the opinion poll from me, I'm fine with it and happy that it works for you.
 
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