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Urshilikai
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21 - 01-15-2010, 13:13
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Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
interesting aside, the warp drives in star trek, or something similar, are being developed right now.
that just ruined the credibility of anything you've said
 
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Goshin
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22 - 01-15-2010, 13:16
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Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
read here
i'll go through it and post some tidbits, it's 47 pages and i forget where the good bits of info are

it's a thread where the inventors of said devices (they also publish) are talking about the stuff they're building, where it's failing, how they are improving their designs, and blah blah blah

interesting
 
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Goshin
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23 - 01-15-2010, 13:21
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Originally Posted by Ianboo View Post
The picture on the article is laughably horrible but the theory is sound: Space activity suit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's about time we update spacesuits to something a little less 1950's.
agree, however that suit had some drawbacks if i recall. hard to move in, hard to take on and off.

i guess this is what they are going with:
Constellation Space Suit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
anyway, they had a big design contest about the space suit gloves, because it took so much energy trying to move them with your fingers and stuff that you got worn out really fast.
New spacesuit glove beats NASA's, hands down - space - 04 May 2007 - New Scientist
and
http://www.space.com/businesstechnol...enge-nasa.html
 
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Goshin
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24 - 01-15-2010, 13:25
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I***8217;d have to say that the idea that the cosmological gravity field is the seat of inertia is not new, but very few professionals other than in the General Relativity Theory (GRT) community are familiar with it enough to be able to participate in it in a productive way. So I guess I need to paint a quick history of where this all started for you.

The idea of the cosmological gravity field generated by the mostly distant mass/energy in the causally connected universe giving rise to inertial reaction forces was first posited by Ernst Mach in the late 1800s, being called later by Einstein as ***8220;Mach***8217;s Principle.***8221; Albert Einstein then discussed the idea further with Mach during the time period between Einstein***8217;s 1905 Special Relativity paper and his 1915 General Relativity paper, and Einstein was quoted after 1915 as saying that ***8220;Mach***8217;s Principle***8221; was the best explanation for the property we call inertia.

Not much was done with this gravity/inertia (gravinertial) field idea until the early 1950s where Dennis Sciama, (Steven Hawking***8217;s grad advisor at Cambridge, UK), published a 1953 paper showing how Mach***8217;s Principle could be shown to be the gravitational parallel to Michael Faraday***8217;s electrical induction effect. Sciama then demonstrated that the near instantaneous inertial reaction forces for all accelerating objects can be viewed as a GRT based ***8220;inertial-induction effect***8221; generated by the gravity based inertial radiation field created by the mostly distant cosmic mass-energy of the universe. Then in 1975 Derek Raine showed that Sciama***8217;s inertial-induction conjecture is correct in Einstein***8217;s GRT for Friedmann-Robertson-Walker (FRW) cosmologies, i.e., in a universe like our own.

Dr. Woodward who has a PhD in the history of gravitational physics came along in the mid 1980s looking at all that had gone before in this inertial induction venue and started to play with the mathematical derivations surrounding Newton***8217;s three laws of motion. He found through this process that when the derivation for Newton***8217;s three laws of motion were performed in GRT compliant 4D spacetime, i.e. in a Lorentz invariant way, he found that there were several transient mass terms in the second and third laws, (F=m*a and action=reaction), that indicated that when a body is accelerated and undergoes an internal energy change such as in a capacitor that is charging and discharging, that a transient mass term should be expressed in the mass of the capacitor.

Over the last fifteen years, Woodward, his graduate student Tom Mahood, and several others including myself have been trying to flesh out Woodward***8217;s mass fluctuation conjecture with experimental data with mixed results. It appears that there are many ways to screw up building these G/I ac devices since they are very phase sensitive to forces AND fields that getting it wrong is very easy and getting it right is very, very difficult.

There is lots more to say, but that***8217;s probably enough for now.
Propellantless Field Propulsion and application
Star Drive is one of the innovators in this field. They know they aren't being taken seriously, but they are designing more experiments, with their own money, to prove the theory. He says they expect results that will spur the scientific community in 2 years or so
 
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Shoddy
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25 - 01-15-2010, 13:33
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If these Lagrange point thingies are valuable space real estate, how do we decide which countries get to put stuff there?
 
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Goshin
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26 - 01-15-2010, 13:34
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more on grav-inertia
Quote:
Considering the promise of this new gravinertial (G/I) field based Mach-Effect (M-E) science and technology, and remember that it is based on Einstein's already well vetted General Relativity Theory (GRT) with only minor tweaks by Dennis Sciama and James Woodward along the way, why do you say that this technology is; "it's highly doubtful is at all possible"?

The M-E is just a transient inertial effect lurking under Newton's three laws of motion that has been neglected up until now because rockets were good enough to do the things we wanted to do up until now. Well guess what? Rockets ARE NO LONGER good enough to do the things we need to be doing to become a space faring civilization! So we had best stop wishing for a panacea for our rocket problems and find a new path. That is what the M-E group is trying to do and the more who are willing to participate in this new adventure, the quicker we will find the right way(s) to do it.

The self-financed M-E R&D group also continues to gather hard data that indicates that this M-E based transient mass fluctuation phenomenon does indeed exist, and if the collective aerospace community would apply itself to resolving the remaining issues surrounding its use, the major paradigm shift in our capabilities you comment on will become possible and affordable. For an example, Dr. Woodward just completed a six month rotary test article study developing an unambiguous demonstration that the M-E***8217;s predicted mass fluctuations can be generated on cue when the appropriate magnitude of bulk acceleration and time rate of change of power through a ceramic dielectric is generated. This mass fluctuation data, which indicated that it can be generated on cue, has already been presented on this forum. However, what we had missed before in our previous M-E experiments over the last ten years was the required MAGNITUDE of the bulk acceleration and dP/dt parameters, such as the need for a bulk acceleration relative to the distant stars that is measured in thousands of gees instead of just gees. We also have to simultaneous maximize the time rate of change of power (dP/dt) being pumped through the accelerated dielectric in question that has to be measured in kVARs (Volt-Amp-Reactive) or tens of kVARs instead of just VARs if we want to generate tens to thousands of Newton of thrust in our M-E based field thrusters. This is information that was hidden away in the M-E***8217;s wave equation***8217;s constants of integration that were NOT inherently obvious to the most casual observer. Given these new insights, I have moderately high hopes that the next generation of M-E tests articles just hitting the testing pipeline should perform much better than my Mach-2MHz test article***8217;s previous best thrust output +0.5/-0.2 gram-force. Of course the proof is in the pudding and Murphy is always waiting to make an ass of one, so we don***8217;t expect any skeptics out there to really believe this stuff until we can float in the test article under its own power for this pivotal demonstration.
and some more info, and links
Quote:
The Space Show hosted by: Dr. David Livingston

Guest: Dr. James Woodward. Topic: Mach/Woodward Effect, revolutionary propulsion, gravitation, inertia, electrostriction, specific impulse, interstellar space travel, wormholes. Dr. James Woodward returned to The Space Show for updates on his work with the Mach Effect, also referred to as the Woodward Effect. The first part of the discussion served as primer to the work of Ernst Mach, what the Mach effect is, and how it***8217;s plausible that it could someday lead to interstellar space travel. In this discussion, we learned about propellant, the dialectical constraints, engineering issues, wormholes, and much more. Dr. Woodward also spoke about acceleration, electrostriction, and the physics supporting the theories. We also talked about experiments and what constitutes science. This is a good discussion you will not want to miss. Dr. Woodward also spoke about a paper delivered at SPESIF 2009 by Pharis Williams on five-dimensional theories, electromagnetism, and gravity. You will want to hear what he has to say about this line of research. Dr. Woodward was asked about the rift between the science and engineering fields with the social science fields. He also talked with us about what constitutes serious out of the box research versus whacky ideas, that is real physics, real science. He then elaborated with us as to his interest in revolutionary propulsion. A listener even asked him how he funded his research and if it was ready for primetime, such as an NSF grant. Again, don't miss his response to this question. If you have a comment or question for Dr. James Woodward, please send him a note at jwoodward@Exchange.FULLER TON.EDU. His Power Point presentation from the SPESIF 2009 conference will soon be available at the SPESIF 2009 website at IASSPES .

Woodward effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Propellantless Field Propulsion and application

lots of stuff on that page. Discussion gets more detailed, and later on they delve more into the experiments they are and have run on the issue

edit for some paper!
Quote:
Dr. Woodward's Origin's of Inertia work located at Woodward's CSUF R&D Interest web site. And I'll even make it easy for you by appending some excerpts from same in a doc file. When dealing with inertia from the Machian perspective of GRT, Sciama's 1953 paper (see this thread), and Woodward's mass fluctuation conjecture, it***8217;s all about gravitational radiation reaction forces...
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/ind...;attach=143573
 
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Last edited by Goshin; 01-15-2010 at 16:34..
max
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27 - 01-15-2010, 13:35
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Originally Posted by Shoddy View Post
If these Lagrange point thingies are valuable space real estate, how do we decide which countries get to put stuff there?
Same way we always have: First one there, wars, politics.
 
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Ztir
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28 - 01-15-2010, 13:36
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i dont think thats going to be an issue
 
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Goshin
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Old
29 - 01-15-2010, 13:38
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Originally Posted by Shoddy View Post
If these Lagrange point thingies are valuable space real estate, how do we decide which countries get to put stuff there?
Lagrangian point - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

essentially, there are lagrange points between any 2 large bodies. The Earth Moon Lagrange Points, Sun-Earth-moon, etc etc etc. It's a point in space where the gravity between the objects kind of...abates and allows for a mostly stable area to put things without need for station keeping, or orbits.

i guess what i'm saying is, there's a lot of room there for things
 
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qcksilver316
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30 - 01-15-2010, 13:41
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just chiming in to say I dont give a ****
 
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Shoddy
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31 - 01-15-2010, 13:46
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Thanks.

Besides space tourism, communication/spy/weather satellites and mining asteroids, are we close to any other forms of revenue generation in space?

What's on the agenda at the ISS for the next 20 years or so?
 
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Golazo
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32 - 01-15-2010, 13:46
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goshin i have personal ties to the Ares project, and have lots of info on it

nothing has been announced that says its dead, everything is still on schedule and they just finished the first 12 story launch tower in florida. they even have new reports that say the vibration/oscillation that was the #1 fear was vastly overblown and no longer a problem. your first post is just a bunch of sketches that internet space nerds did, none of them have any level of official approval let alone a signed contract. the ares is already past its initial testing stages.

as it stands, the ares is the future and will continue to be, nasa is just broke $$. the augustine commission was laughed at in congress and basically disregarded + thrown aside

the ISS, Venturestar, you name it have been giant wastes of $ that have ****ed the ares over
 
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Last edited by Golazo; 01-15-2010 at 13:48..
Goshin
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33 - 01-15-2010, 13:47
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it's pretty good bang for the buck
for the same amount we spend to subsidize CORN (and ag in general), we get a space faring nation and significant technological advancements (microwaves, gps, sats, cellphones, flame retardants to name a few)
 
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Golazo
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34 - 01-15-2010, 13:49
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Originally Posted by Shoddy View Post
Thanks.

Besides space tourism, communication/spy/weather satellites and mining asteroids, are we close to any other forms of revenue generation in space?

What's on the agenda at the ISS for the next 20 years or so?
the ISS will be lucky if it makes it 10 years

the ISS is great for medicine/biology. without the limits of gravity, scientists can do all kinds of cell growth manipulation in the ISS for new vaccines and what not, growing colonies of a virus on earth takes months but in space its only a couple weeks. i think that has some of the highest revenue potential
 
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evolvo
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35 - 01-15-2010, 13:50
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i want to go to space
 
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Golazo
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36 - 01-15-2010, 13:50
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Originally Posted by evolvo View Post
i want to go to space
Welcome | Virgin Galactic
 
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Goshin
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37 - 01-15-2010, 13:56
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didn't say ares V was dead. Jupiter 241SH is really something like what Ares V Classic looks to be. Ares I is dead.
those space nerds took a concept 4 years ago from online chat discussions, fleshed it out with 60 engineers from areonautics industry, had it vetted by Boeing i believe (which said it would fly), then after being swept aside by a biased nasa report, fired back and got reviewed by a presidential panel, and have now beat out one of nasa's in house designs (the sidemount) to get to the administrator. They have accomplished a **** load, especially with no money and doing this on their own time, after their normal jobs.
how about giving them some respect.
http://www.directlauncher.com/

i believe the augustine panel stated the Program of Record (ares) is unsustainable and needs to be reworked.
 
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Shoddy
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38 - 01-15-2010, 13:56
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Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
it's pretty good bang for the buck
for the same amount we spend to subsidize CORN (and ag in general), we get a space faring nation and significant technological advancements (microwaves, gps, sats, cellphones, flame retardants to name a few)
I can appreciate soft benefits, but it looks like we're going to be having economic problems for a very long time, and in that climate things get cut.
 
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Buk Naked
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39 - 01-15-2010, 13:59
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Any chance of generation power in space and transmitting to earth? For safety running fusion generation their and transmitting down, or capturing solar for instance.
 
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Goshin
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40 - 01-15-2010, 13:59
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Originally Posted by Golazo View Post
the ISS will be lucky if it makes it 10 years

the ISS is great for medicine/biology. without the limits of gravity, scientists can do all kinds of cell growth manipulation in the ISS for new vaccines and what not, growing colonies of a virus on earth takes months but in space its only a couple weeks. i think that has some of the highest revenue potential
true, most proposals only have ISS till 2020, then a decommission. Wether at that time we can move it to GEO-Syn orbit or not or if we want to remains to be seen. Probably not. They are also doing materials science on it, as the zero g lets materials combine interestingly and form stronger final products.

Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

that should be a pretty interesting module as well

virgin gets you to space, for 5 minutes. They think a lot of universities will send experiments up. Bigelow and Spacex are being looked at to provide actual space tourist destinations
Bigelow Aerospace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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