[T:V] request for change

I'm hoping the developers will change their mind on clientside scripting and either follow KP's suggestion of disabling server checks on clientside UnrealScript, or implement support for an open standard scripting language (like Python). That being said, I have a request for change in previous behavior.

In Tribes 2, I can write code, compile into .dso, and distribute in a .vl2 file. Some mod authors support this as a way to "protect" their code from being "stolen" by others. Some scripters are against this because you can't be sure exactly what is going on in the code you're running. I'm a scripter.

My request would be some sort of installation specific "signing" of compiled code. Be it mutators for servers, or (hopefully) clientside UnrealScript. This would be specifically to PREVENT distribution of non-source material. Since the benefit of .dso in T2 is that the code doesn't have to be recompiled each time the game runs, the "signed" compiled UnrealScripts would load just fine w/o recompilation on the same install.

Isn't there a thread already on scripting?

How can you try to change something you know nothing about? Unless you have a copy of the alpha, i'm quite convinced that you don't even know what type of scripting is out there...

Shutup kesh.

Gundamflare said:

How can you try to change something you know nothing about? Unless you have a copy of the alpha, i'm quite convinced that you don't even know what type of scripting is out there...

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You're right AND wrong. I know that T:V is supposed to be on the Unreal engine. From looking at the UnrealScript sites, I know that there are two kinds of "script" files, .u and .uc, one is compiled and one isn't.

What I don't know is if the Unreal engine will run compiled code without source in the same manner as T2. If it will, I'm asking for a change to be implemented during development that prevents the possibility of non-source distribution.

Someone more familiar with Unreal based games could tell me if the game will run the compiled code without the source. The developers could tell me as well, and if they plan on allowing T:V to run non-source code.

Unless you have a copy of the alpha, i'm quite convinced that you don't even know what type of scripting is out there...

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Type of scripting for what? T:V? I'm going by what the developers have said, so I have an idea what ISN'T there already, and I'm asking for changes PRE alpha/beta.

Just what was the purpose of your post, Kesh?

Spending more money on a feature that I could give a damn about. If you don't want compiled scripts, then make a website that says ** We only take uncompiled scripts ** otherwise you'll just get in a conflict with other scripters out there. Ones that want their secrets kept secret and others that believe that if you can't see it, it's not worth trying or even the ones that want the freedom to recode what you've already done in order to create something different. But in the long run, if it's not a sticker on the box and if it dosen't totally destroy the game in a sense that it's not worth playing or playing for then why bother? After all, the engine works for UT2k3

LouCypher said:

You're right AND wrong. I know that T:V is supposed to be on the Unreal engine. From looking at the UnrealScript sites, I know that there are two kinds of "script" files, .u and .uc, one is compiled and one isn't.

What I don't know is if the Unreal engine will run compiled code without source in the same manner as T2. If it will, I'm asking for a change to be implemented during development that prevents the possibility of non-source distribution.

Someone more familiar with Unreal based games could tell me if the game will run the compiled code without the source. The developers could tell me as well, and if they plan on allowing T:V to run non-source code.

Type of scripting for what? T:V? I'm going by what the developers have said, so I have an idea what ISN'T there already, and I'm asking for changes PRE alpha/beta.

Just what was the purpose of your post, Kesh?

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Let me start from the bottom up.

First, the purpose of the post is to alert you, or atleast shine some light onto this situation and say hey, its too early in the game to request anything.

I've done a fair share of scripting on the unreal engine. I'm not too sure what you're asking here; "What I don't know is if the Unreal engine will run compiled code without source in the same manner as T2. If it will, I'm asking for a change to be implemented during development that prevents the possibility of non-source distribution."

A .u script, from what I've known is like a .cs, a .uc is like a package in t2. In order to make a .uc you need to run a folder through the makeuc compiler (the name is probably wrong, I haven't touched it in a LONG time).

Anyway, moving along. I did not bring a flame here, I'm just saying that its waayyyyyyy too early to tell about scripting right now, sorry if that post came off the wrong way.

Gundamflare said:

A .u script, from what I've known is like a .cs, a .uc is like a package in t2. In order to make a .uc you need to run a folder through the makeuc compiler (the name is probably wrong, I haven't touched it in a LONG time).

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Ok, that's cool. So there is a compiler outside of the game itself that generates .uc file.

I'm not familiar with the terminology in Unreal. But right now, if I make a mod, I can compile the source and distribute the .dso files in a .vl2 and anyone can run the mod on the same version the .cs files were compiled on.

I guess the equivalent would be making a mutator in .u and then compiling into .uc files and distributing without source code. If that's already allowed, I would ask that be changed.

My suggestion would be something like a checksum or key for compilation being the user's WONID, so that the .uc files would run for that user only, and they would need the uncompiled .u files to install a mutator.

If this were an option, then it could be used in two ways. There could be an option to not run code w/o the source (my choice), or an option to let you specify what author's compiled code to trust (not really in favor of that).

This wouldn't affect anything distributed in source form. It would be an idea for running mutators and clientside UnrealScript (or whatever) if they add it.

The reason I'm for restricting compiled code distribution is a result of seeing code die because source was never available. I understood from my license agreement that derivative works based on the Tribes franchise were property of Sierra/Vivendi, and they should be free to enforce source only distribution. It would eliminate the trust issues that arise with scripts such as moopsWaypoints and VecterHUD, and keep mods like NinjaMod from dying when the authors move on to other games.

Once again, if this is already a "security" feature of the Unreal engine, forgive my ignorance. I'm also only talking about clientside stuff if they change their minds (PLEASE).

Well it's actually the other way... uc is uncompiled and .u is compiled and yeah you use a seperate program to compile the files which for ut is ucc.exe. Anyways for ut2003 you are able to give out the compiled .u files and run it like running dso files. I actually think having it so you are required to give out the source both a bad and good thing which is others would be able to see wtf you put in there or learn from your code but on the other hand there are some assholes who steal your code and pass it off on their own. erm I think this is what you're asking?

edit: actually iirc you HAVE to manually compile .uc into .u in order to even use it... the game itself doesn't automatically compile code like t2 does.