Thrax: Where's the masses?
- Thread starter Wulfen
- Start date
about the chasing sub-topic in here:
i dont play LD as a general rule, and dont pretend to, but i'd like to think i can play anywhere that needs filling in...
that said, chasing good cappers that can grapple and know the terrain is EXTREMELY difficult. Given that they're in a shield and if in med, have a buckler to boot...most of the people that know what they're doing that cap in a pub can bring it to a standoff.
Why am i bitching about chasing? Because chasing seems to be the one area of the game that didnt get hit with the the noobie nerf magic wand(maybe heavy D too but im tired). Capping is easier, HO is easier, vehicles are easier...Offense in general.
There ARE people that can do it, and do it well, but for the most part, they're pretty special players, and there seems to be damned few of them. There's always a plethra of people trying to cap or HO, but generally there's nobody babysitting the flag.
Part of the problem is the maps, but most of it is other jacked up stuff.
i dont play LD as a general rule, and dont pretend to, but i'd like to think i can play anywhere that needs filling in...
that said, chasing good cappers that can grapple and know the terrain is EXTREMELY difficult. Given that they're in a shield and if in med, have a buckler to boot...most of the people that know what they're doing that cap in a pub can bring it to a standoff.
Why am i bitching about chasing? Because chasing seems to be the one area of the game that didnt get hit with the the noobie nerf magic wand(maybe heavy D too but im tired). Capping is easier, HO is easier, vehicles are easier...Offense in general.
There ARE people that can do it, and do it well, but for the most part, they're pretty special players, and there seems to be damned few of them. There's always a plethra of people trying to cap or HO, but generally there's nobody babysitting the flag.
Part of the problem is the maps, but most of it is other jacked up stuff.
Wolfchylde
Veteran XV
LOL I still remember that first day when I saw that ominous dark cloud on the horizon: The day Mareweasel started showing off the ragdoll physics video...
By the end of that DAY I was SO over RDP... I wanted to hear about the gameplay, and was somewhat disconcerted that paltry things like gameplay were "kept under wraps..." you know "top, secret stuff"... *groan*
Im not a hardcore "Ive been playing T1 since beta" I didnt even get into the T2 beta, but I played T2 from the day it came out for nearly TWO SOLID YEARS where almost every night was a team practice session of some sort. Im not even all THAT good a player, but damn I know what "fun" is... T:V isnt in the same ballpark of fun... its not even in the same zipcode of fun.
In all fairness, I do also want to point out that almost EVERYONE was all
when they started talking about the noobified skiing. And I dont think anyone was ever entirely happy with the "answers" we got.
Oh and one other little peeve of mine: That "beta" they did for T:V? You know, the one that was basically the "buggy demo" version?
Mareweas got all pissy at me/us/everyone when we all told him repeatedly that it was NOT a beta, at BEST it was a last minute stress test, but almost ALL the problems we saw in "beta" made it into the "demo"...
I honestly think part of my frustration with the game is how much I (we?) felt lied to by the people who were supposedly going to "save" the franchise. I know SOME of you out there feel kinda betrayed by how underwhelming (and Im being kind) T:V was. And then all the bullshit that followed (lack of ded. server, lack of updates, lack of any REAL commentary from the supposed "brand manager") just basically put the nails in the coffin.
And honestly, Im sad it turned out this way... I truly am.
By the end of that DAY I was SO over RDP... I wanted to hear about the gameplay, and was somewhat disconcerted that paltry things like gameplay were "kept under wraps..." you know "top, secret stuff"... *groan*
Im not a hardcore "Ive been playing T1 since beta" I didnt even get into the T2 beta, but I played T2 from the day it came out for nearly TWO SOLID YEARS where almost every night was a team practice session of some sort. Im not even all THAT good a player, but damn I know what "fun" is... T:V isnt in the same ballpark of fun... its not even in the same zipcode of fun.
In all fairness, I do also want to point out that almost EVERYONE was all
when they started talking about the noobified skiing. And I dont think anyone was ever entirely happy with the "answers" we got.Oh and one other little peeve of mine: That "beta" they did for T:V? You know, the one that was basically the "buggy demo" version?
Mareweas got all pissy at me/us/everyone when we all told him repeatedly that it was NOT a beta, at BEST it was a last minute stress test, but almost ALL the problems we saw in "beta" made it into the "demo"... I honestly think part of my frustration with the game is how much I (we?) felt lied to by the people who were supposedly going to "save" the franchise. I know SOME of you out there feel kinda betrayed by how underwhelming (and Im being kind) T:V was. And then all the bullshit that followed (lack of ded. server, lack of updates, lack of any REAL commentary from the supposed "brand manager") just basically put the nails in the coffin.
And honestly, Im sad it turned out this way... I truly am.
pocketgamer
Veteran X
Yes. . . and I don't think it was all the Dev's fault, it was also part of the community.
Everytime I got on to make a comment about a problem I see, Thrax would start with his propaganda and then 15 other people would get me on and shut me up. Most of my worries ended up comming to like and making the game feel more like a standard shooter, and not Tribes.
Everytime I got on to make a comment about a problem I see, Thrax would start with his propaganda and then 15 other people would get me on and shut me up. Most of my worries ended up comming to like and making the game feel more like a standard shooter, and not Tribes.
The Pumpkin King
Veteran XX
pocketgamer said:
I was guilty of that. I remember when they announced the removal of the health kit. I defended it. I feel like an ass in retrospect.
I put a lot of faith in the devs.
None of it matters now though.
The Pumpkin King said:
Hehe...
I find it amusing that I swung the other way. I listened in on T:V's development news and hated EVERYTHING I heard. I reacted very much like PJ, infact.
I was unimpressed with the open beta. I played it rarely... I found it annoying. Then final demo came out and I was amazed at the amount of refinements that had taken place. They didn't get it *perfect*, but they made it enough for me to play... then I caught myself just having fun with it.
Picked up the full game and I haven't stopped have fun with it.
I think I just forgot my expectations at some point and accepted it as being different.
Go fig, eh?
Er... this isn't to sugest that anyone who doesn't like T:V is wrong. I just thought it might be amusing info.
i remember when t2 came out and penny arcade was all over the game, praising it
so i decided, wth i'll give it a shot.
i felt like a huge noob at first and was confused by how slow t2 felt but the servers were packed. people were running around, i saw weapons being used and wondered how to master them. eventually t2 grew into an obsession which I was able to draw some other friends into also and also introduced me to competition play. at one point, I was buying a new pc every 4 months solely to get more performance out of t2.
i was really looking forward to t:v and remembered aching for it badly. but after playing it for maybe just 100 hours, I realized that i was bored, MA's gave no satisfaction and spamming was just too damn easy along w/ grapple whores. i don't like playing in heavy armor and i never got the hang of grappling and was confused by the total inability built into the game to bring down a grappler. you swing through the air and you're supposed to MA or snipe them? wtf, I really loved learning the complex leads of the various weapons in t2 but forcing you to be some kind of MA master to bring down a grappler is unreasonable.
anyway i don't really know what i'm contributing to this thread by sharing my experience, but i'm extremely disappointed that t:v doesn't have a shelf-life of fun past 100 hours.
also, say what you will about the t2 community, but that community produced the most fucking BADASS videos of gameplay for any game i've ever seen. and mr. sys|yavor of Travel fame produced one of those games that is widely acknowledged as one of the top 5 video's of the game ever produced, if not the absolute best ever. all of you who are saying stupid shit about yavor never did anything that will be a fraction of the accomplishment that is Travel. i suggest you go find the vid somewhere and watch and learn just how much yavor understood T2 and how the absolutely addicting fun of t2 was in team-based moments, not the spamming cowboy moments of t:v.
PJ, I ran a lot of your scripts in the early days but man, they started to get really bloated at the end there. seeing cats and kilgore graphics may have seemed really fun to you but to me, they were offensive, intrusive and really unnecessary.
so i decided, wth i'll give it a shot.
i felt like a huge noob at first and was confused by how slow t2 felt but the servers were packed. people were running around, i saw weapons being used and wondered how to master them. eventually t2 grew into an obsession which I was able to draw some other friends into also and also introduced me to competition play. at one point, I was buying a new pc every 4 months solely to get more performance out of t2.
i was really looking forward to t:v and remembered aching for it badly. but after playing it for maybe just 100 hours, I realized that i was bored, MA's gave no satisfaction and spamming was just too damn easy along w/ grapple whores. i don't like playing in heavy armor and i never got the hang of grappling and was confused by the total inability built into the game to bring down a grappler. you swing through the air and you're supposed to MA or snipe them? wtf, I really loved learning the complex leads of the various weapons in t2 but forcing you to be some kind of MA master to bring down a grappler is unreasonable.
anyway i don't really know what i'm contributing to this thread by sharing my experience, but i'm extremely disappointed that t:v doesn't have a shelf-life of fun past 100 hours.
also, say what you will about the t2 community, but that community produced the most fucking BADASS videos of gameplay for any game i've ever seen. and mr. sys|yavor of Travel fame produced one of those games that is widely acknowledged as one of the top 5 video's of the game ever produced, if not the absolute best ever. all of you who are saying stupid shit about yavor never did anything that will be a fraction of the accomplishment that is Travel. i suggest you go find the vid somewhere and watch and learn just how much yavor understood T2 and how the absolutely addicting fun of t2 was in team-based moments, not the spamming cowboy moments of t:v.
PJ, I ran a lot of your scripts in the early days but man, they started to get really bloated at the end there. seeing cats and kilgore graphics may have seemed really fun to you but to me, they were offensive, intrusive and really unnecessary.
confidential
Veteran X
t1 owned t2
Pachacutec
Veteran X
is it so hard to make the skiing like t1?
its amazing the marketers dont trust what made the original a hit.
"noooo that cant work again. one time thing only"
"like t1? are you crazy, that game had a LEARNING CURVE"
i feel if you put the same team on designing basketball 2.0 they'd make the rims 5ft high so kids can play. they'd observe the same thing that happens in t:v, now the 10 ft guys have it TWICE as easy to dunk that shit and demoralize the newbies.
if its not emerald, shielded cappers aren't a big deal. their active pack lasts x seconds, you disc jump carefully and whore them after they've run out. there is no way a newbie could ever chase in this game.
1. skiing is not controllable, (thanks for the lack of carving marketing fuck heads)
2. it takes a lot experience to use terrain effectively
3. inherited velocity is too low for disc (on of your best bets)
4. disc jumping to start chasing goes nowhere if you dont do it exactly right.
5. most newbies aren't familiar with weapon leading.
so basically by nerfing the game they made it twice as hard to adopt. what a clear and obvious sign they really dont understand the gameplay. for those us who are veterans, and know the above concepts intimately, t:v is a fun great challenge, if a little annoying at times. Things like disc inheritance are moddable, skiing on the other hand...
why is it so hard to be like the original. its amazing to me. they MADE the game, most likely have the source, have an entire community available to them of 18k members that could help fill in the blanks, yet took it another direction due to marketing research? god. its like they invented the airplane and keep trying to find alternate shitty non-flyable versions of it.
frankly i firmly believe that while its close to "great" it definitely missed that notch. no polish, poor release, missing expected features (command screen, carving), bad ui (visible font please, goddamit), ridiculous nerfing (weapon vel inheritance, max range)
one of my biggest pet peeves right now is the sound, which i'm remixing and will release soon probably. the t:v spam of sound gives you a headache sometimes, and my version clears the aural space a bit... i love the game for what it could be, less for what it currently is.
bask in those players numbers though stubborn designers of t:v, that marketing research really paid off.
its amazing the marketers dont trust what made the original a hit.
"noooo that cant work again. one time thing only"
"like t1? are you crazy, that game had a LEARNING CURVE"
i feel if you put the same team on designing basketball 2.0 they'd make the rims 5ft high so kids can play. they'd observe the same thing that happens in t:v, now the 10 ft guys have it TWICE as easy to dunk that shit and demoralize the newbies.
if its not emerald, shielded cappers aren't a big deal. their active pack lasts x seconds, you disc jump carefully and whore them after they've run out. there is no way a newbie could ever chase in this game.
1. skiing is not controllable, (thanks for the lack of carving marketing fuck heads)
2. it takes a lot experience to use terrain effectively
3. inherited velocity is too low for disc (on of your best bets)
4. disc jumping to start chasing goes nowhere if you dont do it exactly right.
5. most newbies aren't familiar with weapon leading.
so basically by nerfing the game they made it twice as hard to adopt. what a clear and obvious sign they really dont understand the gameplay. for those us who are veterans, and know the above concepts intimately, t:v is a fun great challenge, if a little annoying at times. Things like disc inheritance are moddable, skiing on the other hand...
why is it so hard to be like the original. its amazing to me. they MADE the game, most likely have the source, have an entire community available to them of 18k members that could help fill in the blanks, yet took it another direction due to marketing research? god. its like they invented the airplane and keep trying to find alternate shitty non-flyable versions of it.
frankly i firmly believe that while its close to "great" it definitely missed that notch. no polish, poor release, missing expected features (command screen, carving), bad ui (visible font please, goddamit), ridiculous nerfing (weapon vel inheritance, max range)
one of my biggest pet peeves right now is the sound, which i'm remixing and will release soon probably. the t:v spam of sound gives you a headache sometimes, and my version clears the aural space a bit... i love the game for what it could be, less for what it currently is.
bask in those players numbers though stubborn designers of t:v, that marketing research really paid off.
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Agreed, I don't really understand the train of thought that led to some of the things in T:V.
"Hay guys, let's make a game where you can go uber-fast, and then make the most commonly used weapon useless at high speeds!!! This will be fun, intuitive and easy to understand!!!! Fuck yeah!!!"
"Hay guys, let's make a game where you can go uber-fast, and then make the most commonly used weapon useless at high speeds!!! This will be fun, intuitive and easy to understand!!!! Fuck yeah!!!"
[Ms] iNsAnE
Veteran X
I didn't read this whole tread, but I'm just wondering how it got so long. Sounds like another "wah" thread to me. 
Cinderkarst
Veteran X
[Ms] iNsAnE said:I didn't read this whole tread, but I'm just wondering how it got so long. Sounds like another "wah" thread to me.
If there's one thing the denizens of TW are good at...
Rooster128
Veteran XV
BitRaiser said:
No kiddin dude. But anything common trait of the human race is that we are too narrow-minded and never expect anyone can change. Just like you say 'Fat fucking chance' about the 'human race', people act in the same regards towards VUG.
Wolfchylde
Veteran XV
Wow Pacha, you also hit on the rest of my main peeves about the game: The weapon velocity, the max ranges and the SOUND...Pachacutec said:
Told ya, they spent all this effort trying to reinvent the wheel and after that, ended up with square wheels
I was just so unhappy with the "BF1942 wannabe" style respawn screen and the tactical step backwards with regards to vehicles/deployables.
I cant understand how they THOUGHT those were things that the franchise needed. Who thought this was a good idea????[AKA]PanamaJack
Veteran X
Pachacutec said:
Do you know WHY you were able to do that in T1?
It was not because you were skiing. Actually you were not really skiing per say but jumping fast and all the time. You were making contact with the ground each time you jumped and that allowed you to change direction.
You can basically do the same thing with T:V using a script that will rapidly turn the ski button on and off. It would similute the ski scripts from T1. By rapidly switching the ski button on and off you will cause contact with the ground thereby allowing the movement keys to change your direction.
I am surprised no one has even tried to do this as I saw it months ago and do it manually, kind of like how people did skiing in T1 before scripts came out to automate it.
So T1 NEVER had so-called carving. It was just the fact you touched the ground everytime you jumped while moving forward.
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T
TheRedDread
Guest
T2 killed the franchise. T:V could have been the best game ever created and it still would have flopped. Nostradumbass should have known this but he was too busy mastering the command station when his flag got taken.