On Style Points..
- Thread starter ZProtoss
- Start date
You do know, not playing pubs in a *similiar* fashion to how you play matches will severely degrade your level of play over time right? One of the primary aspects of playing good in online games is keeping good habits. If you don't play pubs similar to matches, you're going to develop a lot of bad habits, while not making the good ones you need. Come match time, those bad habits won't magically go away (even if you think they will), and good habits aren't suddenly going to appear. 
pyrot3chnic said:
pyrot3chnic
Veteran XX
Well, what I consider pubbing is doing what I'd most likely do in a match, only I don't care what the outcome of the game is; which means every once in a while I'll get bored of doing the same thing over and over again, like running HO routes to rape or clear the flag. Instead, I'll do something like take the pod, rover, or tank and go ram/run people over at the enemy base. Probably not as effective, but fun, and more importantly, a shift in my routine.
KineticPoet
Veteran X
Here's the deal with individual points. There are 3 categories: Offense, Defense and Style. Your total individual score at any given moment is the total of these 3 categories. Team scores aren't directly affected by individual scores.
There's a general underlying stat tracking system. You can award a stat for just about anything. Each stat can also award you any number of Offense, Defense and/or Style points.
It's all data-driven and very easy to change. Each stat has a log level, and the server operator can configure the stat tracker to only award stats above a certain level. A stat can optionally have an award associated with it. If a stat has an award, then the person with the highest value of that stat at the end of the match receives an award.
Style points are intended to be fun extras that are overshadowed by Offense and Defense points. If you're an LD and you kill someone near your flag, you currently get 1 Offense point (as you do with any kill) and 1 Defense point (for protecting your flag). If you do this and also manage to land an MA, you get an extra Style point for a total of 3 points.
Compare this to someone who goes for MA's but misses entirely. They get 0 points. Or compare this to someone who chooses not to go for MA's but still successfully defends the flag. They still get 2 points, and if they're more consistent because they don't go for flashy MA's, they'll consistently get 2 points.
The idea is that if you do something that helps your team, you get a nice number of points. And if you manage to do it with style, you get a bit extra. This is definitely just a "fun" feature for rewarding cool moments.
A game type chooses which stats it wants to track. It can track any weapon's raw damage as well as headshots and backstabs (if the weapon supports those notions). It can track damage dealt from source to target based on parameters like altitude and speed; for example, currently there's a stat that tracks midair discs, and another that tracks explosive hits over 150kph. But these are just examples. We can see how various stats work out during beta.
But the idea is that Offense and Defense scores reward genuinely useful actions. For example, one stat will be a "timely return" stat (not yet implemented) which awards 3 Defense points if you return a flag moments before your team caps. You get extra Offense points for destroying generators/sensors and extra Defense points for repairing them. You get extra Offense points for killing enemy flag defenders and extra Defense points for killing enemy flag attackers.
This system will surely need to be tweaked but I think we can make it work,
KP
There's a general underlying stat tracking system. You can award a stat for just about anything. Each stat can also award you any number of Offense, Defense and/or Style points.
It's all data-driven and very easy to change. Each stat has a log level, and the server operator can configure the stat tracker to only award stats above a certain level. A stat can optionally have an award associated with it. If a stat has an award, then the person with the highest value of that stat at the end of the match receives an award.
Style points are intended to be fun extras that are overshadowed by Offense and Defense points. If you're an LD and you kill someone near your flag, you currently get 1 Offense point (as you do with any kill) and 1 Defense point (for protecting your flag). If you do this and also manage to land an MA, you get an extra Style point for a total of 3 points.
Compare this to someone who goes for MA's but misses entirely. They get 0 points. Or compare this to someone who chooses not to go for MA's but still successfully defends the flag. They still get 2 points, and if they're more consistent because they don't go for flashy MA's, they'll consistently get 2 points.
The idea is that if you do something that helps your team, you get a nice number of points. And if you manage to do it with style, you get a bit extra. This is definitely just a "fun" feature for rewarding cool moments.
A game type chooses which stats it wants to track. It can track any weapon's raw damage as well as headshots and backstabs (if the weapon supports those notions). It can track damage dealt from source to target based on parameters like altitude and speed; for example, currently there's a stat that tracks midair discs, and another that tracks explosive hits over 150kph. But these are just examples. We can see how various stats work out during beta.
But the idea is that Offense and Defense scores reward genuinely useful actions. For example, one stat will be a "timely return" stat (not yet implemented) which awards 3 Defense points if you return a flag moments before your team caps. You get extra Offense points for destroying generators/sensors and extra Defense points for repairing them. You get extra Offense points for killing enemy flag defenders and extra Defense points for killing enemy flag attackers.
This system will surely need to be tweaked but I think we can make it work,
KP
jesus why dont you stop fucking worrying about how people will play the game and let them play it however they want already. they wanna go for points? fine. let them. Its not your decision to tell them how to play this $50 game they bought or tell them what their motivation should be for playing it.
pyrot3chnic
Veteran XX
Thanks for the explanation. As long as you guys don't overdo it and give points everytime someone farts, it should work out fine I think. One point for one accomplishment.
KineticPoet said:
I agree that many people will go for the most total points possible. Some people will play unnatural importance on some stats though, like style even though logically you'd want more points overall. I know I hated mods like pizzamod in T2, (a mod that included changes to how stats were displayed), because it showed things like most MA's, longest MA, blah blah. Many people played the game normally, but it caused a few people to have a total meltdown and go *JUST* for MA's. Which was insanely frustrating because they basically did nothing for their team.
That said, if style points can stay into the realm of decisions that are mostly going to benefit the team and be smart, they'll be a good addition. The timely return idea sounds fantastic to me. It deters instantly returning the flag, and most times returning it right before a cap is the smart decision. Style needs to stay fixed around gameplay aspects like that, and less around things like MA's imo.
Anyways, thanks for the post KP, it clears a lot of things up.
Holy crap you're awake.
Well, yes, it entirely depends on the style points and their implementation. If they somehow become more important than offense or defense points in pubs we get kind of screwed, but at the same time they reward people for being lucky, basically.
(Burner MA's for 4012903428904290358293 style points apiece)
Well, yes, it entirely depends on the style points and their implementation. If they somehow become more important than offense or defense points in pubs we get kind of screwed, but at the same time they reward people for being lucky, basically.
(Burner MA's for 4012903428904290358293 style points apiece)
Well, I don't think they'll overshadow offense/defense points in large part, but I as I've said I think there'll be some people who'll worship style much more than they should. Which is why the general theme of this thread has been more on the path of making points be awarded mostly/only for things that are helpful to the game rather than low % shots.
-crap- said:
pyrot3chnic
Veteran XX
Still doesn't make sense to me. These idiots you speak of. If someone is stupid enough to go around trying to MA people the whole game, he will end up with the least points for sure. KP's post is right there, I don't understand how you don't see that.
Say some newb is playing LD and everytime a capper comes in he tries to MA him. I'd think he'd hit maybe 1 out of 5 if he's lucky. That's 3 points plus 4 blown chances. If he were to take the higher percentage shot and nail the capper say 4 of 5 times for 2 points each he ends up with 8 points and 1 blown chance. That's what I see happening, the smarter player is getting rewarded. Not sure what you're thinking of. And if this player is too dumb to notice this performance gap, then there's nothing you or anyone else can do about it.
Say some newb is playing LD and everytime a capper comes in he tries to MA him. I'd think he'd hit maybe 1 out of 5 if he's lucky. That's 3 points plus 4 blown chances. If he were to take the higher percentage shot and nail the capper say 4 of 5 times for 2 points each he ends up with 8 points and 1 blown chance. That's what I see happening, the smarter player is getting rewarded. Not sure what you're thinking of. And if this player is too dumb to notice this performance gap, then there's nothing you or anyone else can do about it.
You're looking at it from the perspective of total points. I'm telling you that there will people who will focus on certain parts of the point system when they play. Most will focus on total points, but some will focus entirely on one stat, like style for example. So yes they may have the least total points, but they might have the most style points, and that's all that'd matter to them.
edit: To clarify, you do know that at the end the points are split into three different catagories right? Offense/Defense/Style. It's not a shared total.
edit: To clarify, you do know that at the end the points are split into three different catagories right? Offense/Defense/Style. It's not a shared total.
pyrot3chnic said:
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Come to think about it Pyro, this probably explains part of the confusion in this thread. My understanding if then new point system is that players have 3 different point totals, Offense/Defense/Style. So if you had a total of 10 points it could run down like
Pyro: 5 - 4 - 1
Instead of
Pyro : 10.
It'd explain why you're wondering what the hell I'm talking about if you thought it was the latter
Pyro: 5 - 4 - 1
Instead of
Pyro : 10.
It'd explain why you're wondering what the hell I'm talking about if you thought it was the latter
Deft said:Oh, and a completely adjustable "stat engine" per the server admin's desires is a pretty good idea. Hadn't read about that in regards to T:V.
True! It sounds flexibal, so stop bitching it can be tuned if it goes the wrong way, give it some time (Beta)!
But IHO a total of points would be better then splitting the numbers up, way to much useless info's.
P.S.: I like this "stat engine" thing.
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Annihilator-X-
Veteran X
The new system sounds great.
But the individual offense and defense points should count towards the team score...
I neither love or hate points. They are just numbers for me. Except once...
There was a memorable game I played. Both the storm and inferno team had the same score of 603 points. My storm team had capped the enermy flag and so did the inferno team. In the last 5 minute, I came up with the strategy of telling my teamate flag carrier to drop his flag out in the open area. I messaged him and he did that. Then not long an enermy player went for the flag and returned it.
At that very moment I told the offense guys (I was at base) to capture their flag at all costs. A miracle happened that at the last min the offense guy capped their flag before the enermy flag carrier( who is heavily defended very deep in their base) could come out and score. My team had then 604 points over 603 point and won.
There's not a single moment a point worth so much.
Although it is only shown on score board for like 5 seconds, it was good enough.
I would think if the team scores would have something to do in the next map would be cool. Or a teams score within a game would give some advantage like faster vehicle respawn, etc. Or even like CS you have to use team points to buy equipments stuff. Erh I don't think this will be featured but not bad idea is it?
But the individual offense and defense points should count towards the team score...
I neither love or hate points. They are just numbers for me. Except once...
There was a memorable game I played. Both the storm and inferno team had the same score of 603 points. My storm team had capped the enermy flag and so did the inferno team. In the last 5 minute, I came up with the strategy of telling my teamate flag carrier to drop his flag out in the open area. I messaged him and he did that. Then not long an enermy player went for the flag and returned it.
At that very moment I told the offense guys (I was at base) to capture their flag at all costs. A miracle happened that at the last min the offense guy capped their flag before the enermy flag carrier( who is heavily defended very deep in their base) could come out and score. My team had then 604 points over 603 point and won.
There's not a single moment a point worth so much.
Although it is only shown on score board for like 5 seconds, it was good enough.
I would think if the team scores would have something to do in the next map would be cool. Or a teams score within a game would give some advantage like faster vehicle respawn, etc. Or even like CS you have to use team points to buy equipments stuff. Erh I don't think this will be featured but not bad idea is it?