On Style Points..

I rather have a point system like they do just so I can see the breakdown of players.

Someone on a loosing team with all Style and no D or O will be branded a f*ggot. People with high O AND style will be :cool: tho.


However, the best part will be you'll see how many people are D-humping which will explain why your team is losing.
 
Someone being a branded a faggot for that though luc will entirely depend on the server. I'm speaking in general about all servers, and while someone may get booted on his ass on 5150 E1, he may not on other servers. Not to mention, in his eyes he'd be playing the game fine since he had high style points. :shrug:
 
Haven't heard of these style-points before, but from what's being said here, I can infer what they entail.

Nothing wrong with it at all, in my opinion. In competition, it will be completely meaningless (I assume), and in pub play it would provide both a good distraction to serious players and a good goal for newbies. I'm sure we've all found ourselves attempting the stupidly difficult MA just on the off-chance that we'd hit it (see: any movie from t1 or t2). As has been said, if serious players want serious pubs, then I'm fairly certain that serious pubs will be had.

And I think the attraction of incredibly difficult shots is what brings a lot of new players to the game. Does this mean that because they incorporate crazy MA's into their "formulative stages" that they will be an ineffective player at serious competition? Not really. Players who think the MA is the end-all, be-all and try for them all the time won't really make it into serious competition. Players who realize that they have to do what is necessary will eventually rise above that 360-degree snapshot OMGZ PWNED mentality and they are what most new teams will be compromised of.
 
Sir Lucius said:
I rather have a point system like they do just so I can see the breakdown of players.

Someone on a loosing team with all Style and no D or O will be branded a f*ggot. People with high O AND style will be :cool: tho.


However, the best part will be you'll see how many people are D-humping which will explain why your team is losing.
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I think that's a good point. It can really give you an idea of what players are doing (or aren't doing).
 
Here's the question though. Does that distraction more often than not cause more harm during most games than it does good? You can try to answer it in theory I suppose, but no one on either side of the offense will know until you have fresh players playing it. Still though, if I had to bet I'd say some people would place too much importance on it.

I'm not worried about players making it into serious competition Adam, at least not when talking about this. I'm worried about pub players focusing on mostly meaningless things and in the end enjoying a lesser quality of play than what they otherwise would have had. No doubt people will rise above it regardless, but some people might do particularly worse depending on the circumstances.

Deft said:
Haven't heard of these style-points before, but from what's being said here, I can infer what they entail.

Nothing wrong with it at all, in my opinion. In competition, it will be completely meaningless (I assume), and in pub play it would provide both a good distraction to serious players and a good goal for newbies. I'm sure we've all found ourselves attempting the stupidly difficult MA just on the off-chance that we'd hit it (see: any movie from t1 or t2). As has been said, if serious players want serious pubs, then I'm fairly certain that serious pubs will be had.

And I think the attraction of incredibly difficult shots is what brings a lot of new players to the game. Does this mean that because they incorporate crazy MA's into their "formulative stages" that they will be an ineffective player at serious competition? Not really. Players who think the MA is the end-all, be-all and try for them all the time won't really make it into serious competition. Players who realize that they have to do what is necessary will eventually rise above that 360-degree snapshot OMGZ PWNED mentality and they are what most new teams will be compromised of.
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Well, to a degree. I think it's more of a general marker more than anything else. With obvious things standing out here and there. Like luc's example of someone with lots of style points and hardly any O/D. That'd be a dead giveaway.

Sojourn said:
I think that's a good point. It can really give you an idea of what players are doing (or aren't doing).
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:| Style points have no place in a game of CTF imo... If it is utilized, it should in no way effect the outcome of a game... Just be something for new players to look at... I think this is a bad idea, altho I admit I have not heard of this before now, so I am admittedly ignorant...

TR2 had enough problems with style points effecting the outcome of a game. I dont think CTF needs that headache.

That said, I can only hope Rabbit, in the vein of TR2 makes an appearance in T:V. "Ball" doesnt look to be comparable at this point.
 
ZProtoss said:
Well, yes and no. Points have a very powerful effect on a lot of players. I don't doubt that people learn, but many people hold put way too much of an importance on trying to be on top in a particular stat. Even if that stat doesen't mean anything. Look at how many people in T1/T2 go HO and don't even play it in a smart way. Not because they can't play it in a smart way, but because other ways yield more points (but less of an effect on the other team). New players go towards things with action sure, but they also quickly pay attention to things like score, and tend to treat it with a higher degree of priority.

I don't have any doubts that people will value offense and defensive points moreso than style points. Overall that is. While there are still big issues with both of those, it's less than the potential for issues with a style point system imo. This thread is mainly directed at the potential of creating a sect of players who will be in pubs abroad who *will* only go for style. Even though it might be just 2-3 players in a server doing that, it could put a negative effect on the server.

As I said in the beginning though, it does come back down to how the entire system is setup. MA's and low percentage shots may just be a small part of it, with smarter play options giving more and being more valuable. However the fact that MA's and the like do give points will still make people go for them more often regardless I'd think.
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Well, I think the problem will end up solving itself. How often do you think some random new player will be able to hit an MA? or pass/catch the flag in mid-air succesfully? In my eyes, this system will become the breeding ground for new players. Although they won't learn smart play, they will learn the core skills required for it. Afterall, isn't that the whole point of the 'easy to learn, hard to master' approach to the game? Get newbs to play the game, have fun, and learn some things about the game. Like I said, they probably won't learn as much going for any type of points; but if they choose to go on beyond casual gaming, they will wise up and hopefully use their newly acquired MAing skills for the benefit of his/her team.

I don't find it necessary to teach the casual gamers the ways of competative play. If they can go around shooting things, and every once in a while hit an MA and go "OMG!!" to give them that short adrenaline rush of success, then so be it. Eventually though, that will get old, and they will search for new things to do. Tribes is, after all, a game of longevity, right?
 
ZProtoss said:
Kad, style points are related only to your personal score, and not the score of the team as a whole.
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Ok, then all is well then :)

Thanks for the info.

Hell, I might like going for some style while pubbing, I was just concerned it might effect the overall game.

Good to go :bigthumb:
 
ZProtoss said:
I'm worried about pub players focusing on mostly meaningless things and in the end enjoying a lesser quality of play than what they otherwise would have had. No doubt people will rise above it regardless, but some people might do particularly worse depending on the circumstances.
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Ah, and there's your problem. How do you know it's of lesser quality? Joe Smoe may enjoy killing or dueling over carrying a flag back and forth. The whole point is to let people play the game the way they think it should be played. Once they realise that there are more effective ways of doing things or when certain things get old, this player will move on and try other things. You seem to think that there should be a set style of play in Tribes, driven by a point system, which I don't agree with. I might be wrong though.
 
I'm not real concerned about it, as long as team points for flag touches stays out. :)

The better players won't worry about style points and such since it won't affect the outcome of matches. But pubs, most people play those to get better or to pull off cool things, so it might actually help as far as random pubs go. It's not like Tribes had excellent pubs to begin with, so I don't think this new style point system will make pubs any worse.

It kinda reminds me of LakRabbit.
 
Pyro, all I think is that some people play very stupid and make dumb decisions because of the point system. It should be made to *try* to eliminate some of those issues. That's all.

pyrot3chnic said:
Ah, and there's your problem. How do you know it's of lesser quality? Joe Smoe may enjoy killing or dueling over carrying a flag back and forth. The whole point is to let people play the game the way they think it should be played. Once they realise that there are more effective ways of doing things or when certain things get old, this player will move on and try other things. You seem to think that there should be a set style of play in Tribes, driven by a point system, which I don't agree with. I might be wrong though.
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Kaden said:
:| Style points have no place in a game of CTF imo... If it is utilized, it should in no way effect the outcome of a game... Just be something for new players to look at... I think this is a bad idea, altho I admit I have not heard of this before now, so I am admittedly ignorant...

TR2 had enough problems with style points effecting the outcome of a game. I dont think CTF needs that headache.

That said, I can only hope Rabbit, in the vein of TR2 makes an appearance in T:V. "Ball" doesnt look to be comparable at this point.
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Well, I agree (shouldn't affect outcome), but TR2 is an unfair example seeing as how it wasn't really finished (tweaked). For example, flag carrier MA's (that caused the flag to drop) didn't count for any points. If TR2 was finished we may be comparing it to WHY style points are good, but it wasn't completed so let's not use it.

And for those that don't know, being a master of TR2 is the absolute pinnacle of Tribes skill. It seriously is. Don't judge TR2 until you truly understand it.
[I'm going down for that :scared:]

The only reason I support style points is because in T1 and T2 I refuse to use the cg, and while I'm trying to MA some guy he will pull out his chain and rip me apart. If I win a battle in that situation, I should get more points for not chaining! (for MA's)
 
ZProtoss said:
Pyro, all I think is that some people play very stupid and make dumb decisions because of the point system. It should be made to *try* to eliminate some of those issues. That's all.
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Yes, I just don't think style points would have much of an impact. Like I said before, how often do you really think a newb will hit an MA? After a while he'll start noticing he can't get as many kills and whip out his chaingun, sniper rifle, or w/e...

As long as it's not similar to t2's scoring, all will be well.
 
Here's the crux of the problem which I've been trying to communicate from page 1. No, I don't think a newbie will hit an MA. I don't think he'll hit them much at all. However, some of the newer players may still try to do nothing *BUT* hit MA's regardless, to try and rack up style points. Even if they rarely hit, the few style points they get could be enough for them. It's not a matter for some players on whether something is effective or not, merely a matter of getting points.

pyrot3chnic said:
Yes, I just don't think style points would have much of an impact. Like I said before, how often do you really think a newb will hit an MA? After a while he'll start noticing he can't get as many kills and whip out his chaingun, sniper rifle, or w/e...

As long as it's not similar to t2's scoring, all will be well.
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And all I've been saying is that it's not something to worry about since it will be a small number of people. The important thing is that they will most likely not be able to gain access to any passworded servers. You can't expect newbs to pick up the game and play it like we have for the past 4-5 years, no matter what scoring system you put in.
 
I disagree on the "it's not something to worry about deal". My worry isn't newbies getting onto passworded servers. My worry is newer people to the game could get a wrong idea of what to focus on in game due to the point system. I never said I expected them to play like vets have for the past 4-5 years in any of this. I simply don't want aspects of a point system to potentially mislead people in how to play, which a style system *could* do.
 
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