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View Poll Results: Are you for or against ammo for the Grappling Hook?
I am IN the beta and FOR ammo. 65 14.71%
I am IN the beta and AGAINST ammo. 68 15.38%
I am NOT IN the beta and FOR ammo. 138 31.22%
I am NOT IN the beta and AGAINST ammo. 149 33.71%
Me bad english? Unpossible! 22 4.98%
Voters: 442. You may not vote on this poll

discuit
VeteranX
Old
61 - 08-08-2004, 23:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Striker-
Two more ideas:

Limit refire rate, (this would also fix that immediate second fire after a cut)...


Or even better, make is so that if grapple points take a certain amount of damage, they disengage. If you could disk people's line off the ceiling, it would be pretty easy to return the flag.
Yes and yes...add both imho...
 
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triple
VeteranXV
Old
62 - 08-08-2004, 23:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAT Mav
I thought there was going to be a time limit that the flag could be away from home anyways? Besides, you can swing around and around a stalagmite for a while on each grapple. I don't think limiting ammo will nerf it alone, and passing the flag to a teammate with full grapple ammo removes that nerf right away.
Nah, hold it forever if someone has it.
 
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whyhelothar
VeteranX
Old
63 - 08-09-2004, 00:01
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Only take into consideration people who are in beta please.
 
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cAn
VeteranX
Old
64 - 08-09-2004, 00:08
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yes because you are more important because you went to twars
 
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whyhelothar
VeteranX
Old
65 - 08-09-2004, 00:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cAn
yes because you are more important because you went to twars
Had it b4 Twars kthx. And I say take into consideration the people who have the beta only because they have actually used the grappler and know how cheap it can become. People who don't have the beta only speculate how great it is, but don't understand how rediculously cheap it has become.
 
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liquidh2o
VeteranXV
Old
66 - 08-09-2004, 00:32
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If a person is just grapple hanging you just need to learn to use the tools that you have at your disposal. You have the fighter pod, the burner, the plasma, the Chaingun and the buckler, all of which can take out a grappler, whether they're hanging or in full stride.

Having 20 ammo is not a bad thing, but there needs to be some organized pickups/scrims going on where people actually are working together and not just wandering around trying new things out, so that we can actually get a good feel for how balanced this game really is.
 
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whyhelothar
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Old
67 - 08-09-2004, 00:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidh2o
If a person is just grapple hanging you just need to learn to use the tools that you have at your disposal. You have the fighter pod, the burner, the plasma, the Chaingun and the buckler, all of which can take out a grappler, whether they're hanging or in full stride.
You forget that the capper will have LD covering him aswell...Not to mention the deployed turrets will chew you up way before you get near the capper. And, if by some stroke of bad luck a person is manning the base turrets, good luck getting your worthless pod into action.

Thats assuming the person is grapple hanging of course. 9 times out of 10 they are swinging around in a huge circle around their base (cavern) waiting for LD/Turrets to kill you. The only way I see to stop that cheapness is by setting ammo to the grappler like they did. If they cappers ammo runs low then he HAS to make a pitstop at an INV, which leaves him vulnerable to 100's of ways to die.
 
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-Bane
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Old
68 - 08-09-2004, 00:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whyhelothar
You forget that the capper will have LD covering him aswell...Not to mention the deployed turrets will chew you up way before you get near the capper. And, if by some stroke of bad luck a person is manning the base turrets, good luck getting your worthless pod into action.

Thats assuming the person is grapple hanging of course. 9 times out of 10 they are swinging around in a huge circle around their base (cavern) waiting for LD/Turrets to kill you. The only way I see to stop that cheapness is by setting ammo to the grappler like they did. If they cappers ammo runs low then he HAS to make a pitstop at an INV, which leaves him vulnerable to 100's of ways to die.
Or he can pass the flag to a teammate, who then swings around while he re-invs / plays LD until his teammate needs to inv, and thus it continues. I don't think ammo is going to be a solution - I think if the problem is as bad as people say it is, then this patch on the hole will only hold for so long.

I for one thought you could already dislodge someone swinging around with the grappler by shooting it. If this isn't in already, put it in!!
 
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whyhelothar
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Old
69 - 08-09-2004, 00:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Bane
Or he can pass the flag to a teammate, who then swings around while he re-invs / plays LD until his teammate needs to inv, and thus it continues. I don't think ammo is going to be a solution - I think if the problem is as bad as people say it is, then this patch on the hole will only hold for so long.

I for one thought you could already dislodge someone swinging around with the grappler by shooting it. If this isn't in already, put it in!!
I agree with most of what you're saying. Yes you can clip the line that the capper was swinging with...but guess what he does??? Places his little x-hair to the ceiling presses fire and BLAM, he's swinging again...wasn't that fun? Rinse, wash and repeat, and you have one very gay experience. I for one think 20 ammo is too much, but hopefully that will decrease.
 
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jerry
VeteranXV
Old
70 - 08-09-2004, 01:14
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with the rocket pod being improved so much in the 04 will it become an affective weapon in taking down grapplers?
 
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[-mIze-]
VeteranX
Old
71 - 08-09-2004, 02:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidh2o
Having 20 ammo is not a bad thing, but there needs to be some organized pickups/scrims going on where people actually are working together and not just wandering around trying new things out, so that we can actually get a good feel for how balanced this game really is.
I agree, but you have to remember that the game is not only being developed for competition, it's main sales will be to casual pub players and newbies. You have to consider fun/ease vs. overall balance in a Base. I'm sure over half the servers in the first 6 months will be filled with people doing their own thing. There will undoubtedly be a "competition" mod eventually that will modify and balance physics, weapons, ammo, vehicles, etc. There's no way Irrational/VU can appeal to both crowds perfectly. Definitely not in the Tribes community anyway..
 
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liggyman
Schwag Master4
Old
72 - 08-09-2004, 02:29
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I vote for, there is plenty of ammo given to the grappler to make it effective in a single run, if you need more ammo for the weapon your probably using it more than anything else. aka abusing it.

to add on to this I don't think we should be able to grapple onto a flag... anything else sure, but a flag is a bit much, I feel it takes away from the flag game some as you can't do 'point of defence' on the flag against a grapple hook like you can on the stand.

It's just my opinion love it or hate it.

thanks for asking the question though.
 
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Last edited by LiGGyMaN; 08-09-2004 at 02:34..
Decepti|<on
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Old
73 - 08-09-2004, 02:35
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yeah t1 has beacons and you get a whole 3 of them, i don't see why everyone is complaining so much
 
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EasyTarget
VeteranX
Old
74 - 08-09-2004, 03:11
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I was looking forward to unlimited grappling to be able to mess around on servers. If its such a problem having unlimited ammo for it, maybe restrict its use in other ways besides with ammo? ((shorter firing distance, shorter length of the grappling rope, limited duration of time that you can use one "grapple action" (you could say that's to reduce stress on the tool?), ability for it to take damage, make it "give out" if there's too much stress from speed/direction change))
*edit*
note I didn't read the other responses when I posted this.
 
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Mattack
VeteranX
Old
75 - 08-09-2004, 03:31
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Straight up -- Leave the grapple alone. We named our ****ing team after it.
 
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Da_Timsta2
Unregistered
Old
76 - 08-09-2004, 03:32
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for ammo, not in beta ( )
 
 
Mooley
VeteranXV
Old
77 - 08-09-2004, 04:11
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I honestly thought this thread was about whether you could grapple a poll ..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogi
This poll is proceeding exactly how I expected it would.
Yea, it's pretty balanced, most everyone seems to have voted honestly.
 
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Last edited by Mooley; 08-09-2004 at 04:23.. Reason: Typos argh! fucjkngoijbze
Phantom
VeteranX
Old
78 - 08-09-2004, 05:48
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Ok, initially I was against the ammo, but now that i thought of it:

If there would be ammo, it's clear that the devs would try to make it somehow restricted(See ideas suggested, refire rate, limited time, energy based...) But the point is, I want it to be exactly like it is right now. And then I started thinking: 20 is pretty damn much, I have normally 15 spinfusor shots, and after cappin about 9 still left. (Or whatever i do). Now i hardly can imagine using the grappler more than the SF, which is the basic weapon of Tribes. EDIT: And if I run out of Grappler ammo it's pretty sure i don't have any other ammo left anyway.
That's why I voted:

I'm NOT in the beta, and I'm FOR ammo.
^(Altough i would give anything to be)
 
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Last edited by Phantom88; 08-09-2004 at 06:21..
L4MpoTr0N
Unregistered
Old
79 - 08-09-2004, 05:57
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I am NOT IN the beta and FOR ammo.


The grappler looks awesome, but it should have limited ammo each respawn, because otherwise will be really difficult for LD's to stop enemy FC, and enemy FC could use the grappler continously on the flag
 
 
Last edited by L4MpoTr0N; 08-09-2004 at 06:26..
Amadeus
VeteranXV
Contributor
Old
80 - 08-09-2004, 06:31
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DISCLAIMER: I am not in the beta, but I did code the physics of the grappling hook in both the T1 and T2 Vengeance mods, and I believe it's quite accurate. So even if I'm not in the beta, I do have experience with something that is at least very close to the T:V grappler.



That being said, the problem here at hand is very similar to two things already in the game. The jetpack (as mentioned earlier), which runs out of energy if you use it too often and for too long, and the chaingun, which gets less accurate the longer you whore it.


The problem with the grappler is not that people use it too much before they hit an inv. The problem is that they tend to use it too frequently. The jetpack and the chaingun are perfect examples of balancing something that is not to be used too often (sure, the CG has ammo too, but you never use up all of it at once). The grappler needs some kind of system that limits its whoring, but keeps it usable over time.


My suggestion to the problem would be a little tinkering with line strength. Every swing would stretch the line more and more (not affecting distance though), and it would snap if the tension's too much. How is this different from the current system? The line would need time to get 'unstretched' after a swing, much like how the CG has to cool down after each burst. This way, 3 or 4 swings after each other would still be possible, but after that the rope would be very likely to snap.
 
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