Do you support lethal force to defend your home/business/property during a riot? by ZProtoss - Page 10 - TribalWar Forums
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Detox.enD
VeteranXV
Old
181 - 08-12-2011, 08:24
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Phantred is just bitter because he doesn't have pin-point accuracy from any range with a handgun, after just waking up at 2 am, in a panic because someone's in his house and he may actually have to use his gun, in the dark.
 
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BodyShoT
VeteranXX
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182 - 08-12-2011, 09:22
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I have been a long time gun owner. I have taken safety courses. I have taken shooting / self-defense courses taught by former swat officers. I am well practiced. I keep a loaded gun for protection. I hope I NEVER EVER have to pull a gun on a real person to protect my family and property. That moment will change my life and theirs forever. I will defend myself if I have to but I take no pleasure in even thinking about it. I do not suffer from BMWAG syndrome. People that do have not weighed the impact and responsibility of gun ownership.

Just to recount a story from my first self-defense class. One of the on-range situational practices involved a life size human dummy wearing a t-shirt in low light. Shooting paper targets up to that point even with silhouettes were straight forward. This was different. In the low light it looked like a real person and it changed the whole feel of the practice. After that class I thought long and hard about the decision I was making and the sobering reality of gun ownership. The next class I found many others in the group that had the same reaction to the night before. The instructor told us that specific exercise was always given at the end of the first day as a reality check. I can't tell you how invaluable that was.
 
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Last edited by BodyShoT; 08-12-2011 at 09:25..
ScooBySnaCk
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Old
183 - 08-12-2011, 09:38
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bodyshot thanks for that PBS report.



 
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BodyShoT
VeteranXX
Old
184 - 08-12-2011, 09:45
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NP I do what I can.
 
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Detox.enD
VeteranXV
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185 - 08-12-2011, 10:22
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I agree with bodyshot...
 
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RamataKahn
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Old
186 - 08-12-2011, 11:03
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That's why Texas is awesome with their Castle laws.
 
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ZProtoss
10,000++
Old
187 - 08-12-2011, 12:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinity View Post
But, like I was saying. Guy breaks into your house unarmed with the intent to steal some stuff. You wake up and shoot him immediately, his estate sues you. They get witnesses saying he thought you were out of town and he was just breaking in to steal some ****. Doesn't have a record, never hurt anybody in his life.

That happens, you have to make a jury believe that he threatened your life. Easier said than done without lying.
That type of person is exceedingly rare - violence and burglary almost always go hand in hand. And who's really going to testify on his behalf? If he's breaking into other houses, people who were aware of the activity (to the extent of testifying in your example) are almost certainly involved in similar activity and wouldn't want to draw attention to themselves in a trial.

That leaves only family as witnesses, and whether it be in criminal or civil court, family members testifying on behalf of a criminal relative carries very little weight when the testimony is positive.

Basically, the only circumstances in where shooting someone who broke into your home revolve around shooting someone when there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that the person was retreating and no longer a threat. Example:

---
Guy breaks into your house.

You shoot guy in a random non-vital spot, and he turns to flee.

Even though he's wounded, you chase him out the door and shoot him in the back as he's trying to escape.

---

In the above scenario, the homeowner would absolutely be facing some sort of jail time in most states/jurisdictions. Because he clearly (beyond a reasonable doubt as far as evidence goes) followed the burglar and shot him in cold blood as he was retreating.

Essentially, there must be clear and irrefutable evidence that the person who broke into the home had decided to break off the encounter, and thus end the potential threat to the homeowner. Because once the immediate threat is dealt with, it's up to the police to handle the rest.
 
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Gandalf
VeteranXX
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Old
188 - 08-12-2011, 12:59
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I'm going to end this discussion with some advice to the idiots like AJ (who would suck the burglar's nutsack in any event) who seem to think shooting someone that enters your house is a open and shut case of self defense.

Keep in mind that laws vary from state to state (in spite of AJ's assertion that it's "settled law").

The single most important thing to think about, in a self defense shooting is this - you've just committed homicide. The body on the ground is doing a terrific impersonation of a victim. As the shooter, you're freely admitting you did it. Those are the basic facts. Furthermore, there is no more "presumption of innocence" in court. Your entire case (if it comes to that) is that you're guilty, but was justified in your actions. Thus, you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you had no choice but to shoot.

Regardless of what AJ spews, the onus is on YOU to justify your actions, either to the district attorney, or a court of law. PERIOD.

And even if you manage to get a "no true bill" out of a grand jury, you still will probably have to face a civil suit, where the burden of proof in negligence is far less than a criminal trial. Even then, if you're found innocent, you've spent tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees.

In short, shooting someone over "stuff" is going to cause you far more heartache than you can even imagine, even if you're a stone cold blooded killer and can blow someone away like lint. You'll have to ask yourself "is it worth it"?
 
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FngrBANG
VeteranX
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Old
189 - 08-12-2011, 13:02
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The correct answer to this thread is: "Government will take care of you"
 
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Pagy
VeteranXX
Old
190 - 08-12-2011, 13:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
I'm going to end this discussion with some advice to the idiots like AJ (who would suck the burglar's nutsack in any event) who seem to think shooting someone that enters your house is a open and shut case of self defense.

Keep in mind that laws vary from state to state (in spite of AJ's assertion that it's "settled law").

The single most important thing to think about, in a self defense shooting is this - you've just committed homicide. The body on the ground is doing a terrific impersonation of a victim. As the shooter, you're freely admitting you did it. Those are the basic facts. Furthermore, there is no more "presumption of innocence" in court. Your entire case (if it comes to that) is that you're guilty, but was justified in your actions. Thus, you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you had no choice but to shoot.

Regardless of what AJ spews, the onus is on YOU to justify your actions, either to the district attorney, or a court of law. PERIOD.

And even if you manage to get a "no true bill" out of a grand jury, you still will probably have to face a civil suit, where the burden of proof in negligence is far less than a criminal trial. Even then, if you're found innocent, you've spent tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees.

In short, shooting someone over "stuff" is going to cause you far more heartache than you can even imagine, even if you're a stone cold blooded killer and can blow someone away like lint. You'll have to ask yourself "is it worth it"?
you're a creationist
 
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Automatic Jack
VeteranX
Old
191 - 08-12-2011, 13:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
I'm going to end this discussion with some advice to the idiots like AJ (who would suck the burglar's nutsack in any event) who seem to think shooting someone that enters your house is a open and shut case of self defense.
I don't think I actually said that, and have made repeatedly clear that the law is the law...but all the cops I know would just shoot you first and talk to the DA later. And I don't recall hearing a lot of cases of people being successfully prosecuted for killing intruders inside the house. A few cases of people getting sued for it, a problem, if you want to call it that, that was in large part the genesis of those castle laws ("OMG not all the castle laws mention civil liability retard!").

So yes, if you read the words "you can kill intruders just for intruding" with the fundamentalist zeal of your kind, implying that I can't read simple English and think it's always legal and the DA will give you a handjob for it, it sounds pretty retarded. If you actually apply those words to reality and understand that defending your home gives a broad defense in all states, up to Colorado, which actually took the premise you rightly pointed out as retarded and enacted it into law, they are just simple observations of fact.

Which I know is not really your thing.
 
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