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ZenTseTse
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21 - 03-03-2005, 18:48
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i think calling locks useless is funny.

if you think CoS is useless, buffs, hearthstones and the massive damage that shadowbolt spam can do... not to mention the demons, CC skills and summoning... gosh, what game are you playing?
 
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Blotter
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22 - 03-03-2005, 19:50
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....

its all cheese
its just support for the clutch classes. the game would be fine without us, the game is ****ed without mages.
 
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StarZ
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23 - 03-03-2005, 20:26
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i just wish my VW pet could hold aggro as well as a hunter pet =\
 
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Cavalier
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24 - 03-04-2005, 10:00
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I like this change, alot. I have alot of +crit gear already, along with the +crit talents, (and hopefully once that ***** ass beast skins me his pristine hide) another 2% in my headpiece - i'll be at 39% crit chance for Searing Pain, and 29% for all my other spells.

Its really not that bad, i wipe the floor with every class but priests now (who **** me in my anus like I do with Blotter in the Tribes series).

Because i crit so often, and have a boatload of hp, i'm not so reliant on my CC anymore. If have the opening to make the fear cast, then great I will. The best part about it is when I fear, and get counterspelled/kicked - i have my entire fire line to go down and still be effective.

Shards and the whole Enslave Demon/Purge/Dispel issue are ones I'd like to see changed - and then the bugs like the Pet Pathing.

But i'm optimistic! While the Warlock could and probably will get some love in the next 6 months from the devs, even right now I'm enjoying that i'm not so reliant on any one skill. You always get those other classes that complain whenever skill abc got resisted or was still on cooldown, and its nice not to have that same annoyance.
 
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Vulcan
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25 - 03-04-2005, 10:08
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cavvv are you destruction to conflagrate or whhuttat
 
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Pagy
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26 - 03-04-2005, 10:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blotter
polymorph broken in 15 seconds? uh.. try 30+
i think you have fear and polymorph mixed up...

mages have silence, cone of cold, frost nova, arcane missles, fireball, frostbolt, ice barrier... they have more dps and a little less cc, but more defense. and they're getting a whole new shield with mana regen.
the last patch made pm have a high chance of breaking *on players* in 15 seconds

i was sheeped by someone 10 levels over me the other day and it lasted 12 seconds.

i think you're confused with how long it lasts on mobs and how long it lasts on players.

cone of cold is a close range snare... oh wow no other class has snares.
arcane missiles... wow no other class has attack spells
ice barrier? wait a asecond, you are saying an ice mage has more single target dps than a warlock?
 
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Pagy
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27 - 03-04-2005, 10:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blotter
....

its all cheese
its just support for the clutch classes. the game would be fine without us, the game is ****ed without mages.
why don't you play one?

i mean it isn't enough that even zprotoss claims we do comparable dmg with a mage so why dont you... play a mage and stop whining?
 
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sekdar
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28 - 03-04-2005, 11:19
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i disagree that warlocks are useless in group pvp.

my guildmate is 30/21 spec, he throws level 1 corruption on every badguy he sees, casts COS on the designated target, then starts SPAMMING instacast shadowbolts with nightfall. stuff dies fast. real fast. he also has the longest-ranged instacast snare in the game.

my alt is arms/fury warrior. proving to be even more fun than my rogue.
 
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Blotter
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29 - 03-04-2005, 13:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pagy
why don't you play one?

i mean it isn't enough that even zprotoss claims we do comparable dmg with a mage so why dont you... play a mage and stop whining?
i'm just learning these things and a mage will probably be the next character i create.

im not looking forward to rerolling and playing with a crapload of ****ty pickups group. i do not enjoy the grind to 60....

its not whining, its the truth. we have a very small role and its not really that important, most of the time.
 
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Machine
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30 - 03-04-2005, 14:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarZ
i just wish my VW pet could hold aggro as well as a hunter pet =\
Get the Imp. Voidwalker talent (+20% effectiveness to all VW abilities, except sacrifice, i think). I can drop all 3 DoTs (immolate, CoA, and corruption) at once and he won't aggro on me.
 
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Machine
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31 - 03-04-2005, 14:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sekdar
real fast. he also has the longest-ranged instacast snare in the game.
.
... You're not talking about Curse of Exhaustion, are you?


if so
 
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StarZ
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32 - 03-04-2005, 15:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [OO]Machine
Get the Imp. Voidwalker talent (+20% effectiveness to all VW abilities, except sacrifice, i think). I can drop all 3 DoTs (immolate, CoA, and corruption) at once and he won't aggro on me.

is the talent worth getting? i thought about it but wasnt sure how good it was. i was just looking at the talent builder and i would be ok using a spec with 2 levels of imp vw.. still worth it?
 
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ZenTseTse
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33 - 03-04-2005, 17:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blotter
....

its all cheese
its just support for the clutch classes. the game would be fine without us, the game is ****ed without mages.
fine, then dont play your warlock.

if you really believe that, then you probably arent much help anyways.



there is a good reason that in group pvp among experienced players, that folks go for the priests and warlocks first...
 
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Last edited by ZenTseTse; 03-04-2005 at 17:40..
Nevearion
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34 - 03-04-2005, 18:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarZ
is the talent worth getting? i thought about it but wasnt sure how good it was. i was just looking at the talent builder and i would be ok using a spec with 2 levels of imp vw.. still worth it?
Not worth getting, VW is really only good for soloing and as far as the 3 dots go, corruption and CoA first wait for voidwalker to taunt 2 or 3 times than cast immolate. Immolate is what will cause aggro to switch eventually, corruption and curse of agony have very small threat but immolate generates a lot (especially on crits). It would be nice to have the extra effectiveness but isn't at all necessary.
 
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FalseMyrmidon
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35 - 03-04-2005, 18:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenTseTse
fine, then dont play your warlock.

if you really believe that, then you probably arent much help anyways.



there is a good reason that in group pvp among experienced players, that folks go for the priests and warlocks first...
They should always go for the warlock first because the Warlock won't be able to pvp for long if they keep losing shards.
 
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ZenTseTse
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36 - 03-04-2005, 20:26
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this isnt news to anybody who has played a lvl 60 lock for a while...



just a few snaps during a few minutes in Strath... and im not even spec'd for shadow damage... and i have crappy gear... and didnt have pet attacking.

during this same baron run, i saved my priest's ass several times. i passed out a dozen or more healthshards. likewise, i pulled taunt from the 2 warriors and rogue many times... (although not for long) by just doing casual dps.

and that doesnt count succubus CC & fear options for pvp... (or doomguard/infernals for that matter)

in fact, i think there is another reason people go for warlocks and priests in pvp initially (if they are smart) and that's cuz locks are brutal when played well, as they are flexible for raw dps or just doing support stuff.



likewise, there is a reason so many folks whine about warlocks being "overpowered"... (although i disagree)
 
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StarZ
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37 - 03-04-2005, 23:40
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im only 54 and have solo'ed the whole time almost as my guild was already higher level when i got the game

usually pull with CoA then corruption, then cast drain life, once its finished lifetap and cast immo, then drain life until its dead.. pet usually holds aggro but seems like last few levels it breaks off my VW when its about 20-25% life
 
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ZenTseTse
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38 - 03-05-2005, 00:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarZ
im only 54 and have solo'ed the whole time almost as my guild was already higher level when i got the game

usually pull with CoA then corruption, then cast drain life, once its finished lifetap and cast immo, then drain life until its dead.. pet usually holds aggro but seems like last few levels it breaks off my VW when its about 20-25% life
sounds about right...

when you get to 57-60 stuff, you'll be grouping a ton more. and in the larger groups, i yhink you want to back off the DoTs actually and just focus on Curse of Elements/Shadow depending on what teammates are doing (i.e. if yall are mostly doing shadow or fire damage, use appropriate curse).

likewise, i know folks play locks differently but i try to stay flexible and in a PVE support role (i.e. keep 1/2 mana and all my health) unless there is a boss in which case i use CoS+SB spam along with dark pact/lifetap (i cycle them only when dark pact isnt good enough). normally in PVE raids i use my imp.

in large PvP i pull out the succubus and basically play like a counter-puncher.
 
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Last edited by ZenTseTse; 03-05-2005 at 00:09..
Jambalaya Pretzelstein
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39 - 03-05-2005, 07:07
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stop dueling in town and get some real pvp

tse, why are you posting images of dps in pve?

my level 35 mage can literally do 2000 dps grinding on camps of murlocs. (extremely contrived and rare situation) Those pictures don't impress anyone. (Are you SERIOUSLY bragging about doing 207 dps in stratholme?)

Who was it that called Cone of Cold a snare..? Cone of cold is only the highest dps AoE spell in the game I guess the only use is the chill effect? You don't use CoC for the snare you do it for the extremely high dps.

Are warlocks good 1v1 duelers? ... I don't really care. I just don't care.

In large scale pvp you don't use poly, it's irrelevant. No mage will poly in 20v20 fight they will be dishing damage as quickly as they possibly can.

So anyway

Warlocks can't really kill anything, they have cheesy out-of-combat utility such as soulstones and summon. The pets are a nonfactor in large scale pvp. The dots are nearly worthless due to the 8slot debuff limit and the limited usefulness of dots in pvp anyway. They lack versatility. The fear, especially the AoE fear, is nice. Downsides are that any competant horde guild is going to be majority undead and immune to fear. Any competant alliance guild is going to have a large number of Glimmering Mithril Insignias which make them immune to fear. Nevertheless, the AoE fear is useful and so is the single target. But is it MORE useful than say, a mage that can do 750dps PER PERSON in a 10 yard radius over 6 seconds then go immune to all negative effects and damage for 10 seconds? Or a shadow priest that can AoE fear and also heal, nuke and dot better than a warlock?

Or a hunter that can aim shot from range again and again for 2400 damage crits? And also has pets? And a mana drain? Not to mention extremely long range and low mana reliance?

Bloodpact is nice though. Shadowburn is nice too but don't run out of shards, and you're basically imitating a mage anyway. Locks give up other things that mages have so they can get pets, dots and curses - things which are nearly completely irrelevant in large scale pvp.

But really, warlocks are a wasted slot in large scale group pvp. That player could be much more effective as a mage/hunter/druid/priest/rogue/warrior/shaman

I'm not sure why TW has so many damn warlocks
 
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Last edited by Jambalaya Pretzelstein; 03-05-2005 at 07:35..
Jambalaya Pretzelstein
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40 - 03-05-2005, 07:21
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also

tse

tell your warriors to stop rending and your druids to cut it out with the faerie fire

those are serious wastes of debuff slots. some classes have useful things to put there.

the 3x moonfire is kind of grottie as well makes me question your druid

having said all that, it's not that warlocks are useless in large scale pvp, it's that any more than 1 and you're really just crippling your team. You certainly don't need 1 either. 1 is the maximum. If you want ranged damage you take a mage or hunter, if you want AoE you get a mage, if you want a support class you take a druid or priest or even a paladin or shaman. Warlocks don't really have an important role they just imitate mages by shadowburning then running out of shards in 5 minutes and being... a total gimp.
 
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Last edited by Jambalaya Pretzelstein; 03-05-2005 at 07:34..
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