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Monkey_b
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Old
141 - 11-23-2005, 12:37
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Honestly though, you people are idiots. Legends is very ****ing close to T1, and as slow as they work, they're sooo far ahead of any effort any of you can muster up. Why not lend it your support? It shows a ton of promise, it just lacks momentum.

If you could verify that it's possible to reproduce T1 physics exactly, then a new project may have a shot at succeeding, otherwise, if Legends couldn't make it, neither will this.
 
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Stellar*
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Old
142 - 11-23-2005, 12:38
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MB, that script/mod idea is probably possible, but imagine all the variables... 360 degrees of movement, time of contact with ground, angle of ground, angle of descent/ascent relative to ground etc... It would most likely be more trouble than it's worth.
 
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Mafo
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143 - 11-23-2005, 12:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey_b
T1 source is not needed, you just need to know down to a T how the physics of the game work.
sure the t1 source technically isn't needed to do this
but having the t1 source would do this in a second whereas not having it will take ages
 
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Bezel
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144 - 11-23-2005, 12:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelyan
They kinda wanted to sell more than, I dunno, 2,000 copies of the game
Yeah, worked out well for them didn't it? Probably made millions.
 
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Mafo
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145 - 11-23-2005, 12:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evele
Yeah, worked out well for them didn't it? Probably made millions.
well we KNOW they wouldn't have made millions off t1 with better graphics
so they had to try it a different way

there is nothing you can expect other than them trying to make money, because that's what it's about

so it was either make t1 again for 2,000 copies or try something else for potentially more
whch would you pick
 
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Snapple
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146 - 11-23-2005, 12:48
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i agree with monkey here. For all you people who claim you are willing to give your time/talent/money for this project, why not get together and re-do legends? Legends is allready more than half way of where we would like to be with this re-creation of t1.

with some added tweaking/ideas/talent iam sure legends can be made to feel alot more like T1. I cant see letting all the time and work put into legends die.. Its very close to where we want to be, so FIX IT :O

and iam sure the name legends can be changed if it bothers that many people.
 
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Monkey_b
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147 - 11-23-2005, 13:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stellar*
It would most likely be more trouble than it's worth
Well, gathering the data is the first step anyhow. Once you figure out how things work, you can evaluate different game engines and see if it's feasible or not. It's difficult to know one way or the other until we know exactly what it is that needs to be built.

Still, I think Legends has more promise than any of this, simply because they're already so far ahead in things. They work real slow, but if people gave them their support, things could pick up.
 
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Excal
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148 - 11-23-2005, 13:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evele
ALL WE ASKED FOR WAS T1 WITH BETTER GRAPHICS......ARGHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! !!!
Do not pretend to speak for the community, A vast majority of the community absolutely did NOT ask for T1 with better graphics. If that had been what was released then the lifespan of T2 would have been shorter than T:V

What was wanted was a game that was just as fun as T1 with better graphics and more content and was a logical forward step in the series. Alot of people think T2 fulfilled this once classic mod was released. Of course by that time those that gave up on T2 at release would not give it a chance.

If you are going to make sweeping comments like this then make sure you precede it with "in my opinion"
 
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Phantom
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149 - 11-23-2005, 13:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey_b
T1 source is not needed, you just need to know down to a T how the physics of the game work. If you know the physics of the game clearly, you can then try to find a suitable engine to reproduce it on.

It's like any program, if you have clear specs, you can build it right.
Exactly. But what else could give us those specs except the source itself?
Unless the devs are willing to write us a 10 page paper on it

Hell, if I knew exactly how the physics worked i'd start coding this right now. Physics is the only part of the T1 code that would be used anyway. That's the core of tribes.
 
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Monkey_b
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150 - 11-23-2005, 13:45
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Can't you develop those specs from raw data? If you get a mod/script to log all the physics-related data while someone plays, you would have the raw data, wouldn't you?
 
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Monkey_b
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151 - 11-23-2005, 13:46
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I know it's not easy by any means, because all that raw data (and there would be tons of it) would have to be interpreted somehow, but it could be done.
 
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Bridude
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Old
152 - 11-23-2005, 13:49
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I own the torque engine. Let me know if I can be of service.
 
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Plastic
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Old
153 - 11-23-2005, 13:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plastic
just play t1 with hudbot and be happy you ******s
 
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Capaholic
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Old
154 - 11-23-2005, 14:19
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I think one problem with reverse engineering the physics data is that even if you can generate movement data, there is no way to reverse engineer the environment effects...unless you just want to do trial and error forever.

i.e. when you're skiing down a hill, it's easy to find an acceleration and top speed value, but how much of that number is due to gravity vs. incoming speed vs. jetpack vs. terrain friction vs. player orientation etc.

you can just arbitrarily assign values that make the total speed correct, but if the core elements are off, then other movements won't feel right(if air resistance is too high, then air movement is soupy, even though skiing is the right speed)

It'd be like winning the lottery to hit all the values just right.
 
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Monkey_b
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155 - 11-23-2005, 14:28
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yea, I figure people have already thought of this before and decided it wasn't a viable option, as it's not exactly a novel idea :\
 
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Phantred
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156 - 11-23-2005, 14:29
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Has nobody been paying attention?

Has nobody played t1, and t2, and t:v, and legends?


The problem is not the math. They can duplicate the numbers no problem, the speed and trajectories were not an issue. It's the FEELING. Christ, go look at some screenshots from t1. You felt free playing it.

Something(s) about the envirenment felt different than any other game. You could play for an afternoon, go to sleep, and feel like you had been in a boat all day, your mind would still crave the movement\feel.

Loop says it has to do with the rendering, I don't pretend to know how that would effect it, but I sure as hell can't figure out in my mind what the difference between tribes and other games is, but like I said, you can see it even in screenshots, but maybe that is just because I've played it and my mind remembers it.
 
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Monkey_b
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157 - 11-23-2005, 14:32
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I would stab someone for the tribes 1 source code.
 
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SarcaStick
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Old
158 - 11-23-2005, 14:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapple
i agree with monkey here. For all you people who claim you are willing to give your time/talent/money for this project, why not get together and re-do legends? Legends is allready more than half way of where we would like to be with this re-creation of t1.

with some added tweaking/ideas/talent iam sure legends can be made to feel alot more like T1. I cant see letting all the time and work put into legends die.. Its very close to where we want to be, so FIX IT :O

and iam sure the name legends can be changed if it bothers that many people.
snapz, remember 'that' game

(you have to admit, for a few days of working on it, it was a lot of fun and had great potential)
 
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Snapple
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159 - 11-23-2005, 14:50
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we cant have the source code, but the next best thing would be legends since its more than half way done, why not work with the legends team to help better the project instead of mocking it. i dont understand
 
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Zear
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Old
160 - 11-23-2005, 14:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridude
I own the torque engine. Let me know if I can be of service.
Ditto
 
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