GOP's "Christian Nation"

orbital 123

Veteran XX
http://www.reason.com/cy/cy071404.shtml
OP's "Christian Nation"
New excuses for a bad idea
Cathy Young



After a short respite from the fight over the Pledge of Allegiance, the Republican Party has once again thrown itself into the fray over issues of church and state. This time it's the Republican Party of Texas, President Bush's home state, which has approved a plank in its platform affirming that "the United States of America is a Christian nation."

The plank, which also pooh-poohs "the myth of the separation of church and state," has elicited protests from Jewish groups. So far, however, it has not been rejected by the national Republican Party. This is in contrast to a similar flap in 1992: A statement by then-Mississippi Governor Kirk Fordice at a Republican governors' convention that "the United States is a Christian nation" was met with rebukes from leading Republicans, and Fordice eventually had to apologize.

True, the Texas Republican Party's plank also includes the "Judeo-Christian" formula that the national Republican leadership defended in 1992 ("our nation was founded on fundamental Judeo-Christian principles based on the Holy Bible"). But the affirmation of Christianity as the core of the American spirit rings far louder than the small nod to the Jewish heritage.

Some conservatives in the media have not merely refused to criticize the "Christian nation" plank but rallied to its defense. Interviewing Texas Republican Party chairwoman Tina Berkiser, the Fox News Channel's Bill O'Reilly described the plank as a "largely symbolic" response to secularist activists and judges who would throw God out of the public square. On another Fox News show, Hannity & Colmes, guest host Mike Gallagher suggested that objections to the plank stemmed from anti-Christian "bigotry."

Secularist bigotry does exist. It can be found in policies that forbid any mention of faith in student graduation speeches in public schools, in campaigns to get Christmas decorations off public property, or in the recent successful push by the American Civil Liberties Union to remove a tiny cross from the Los Angeles County seal. But it is hardly bigoted to see the "Christian nation" plank as an affirmation of Christian supremacy, relegating non-Christians (if only in a "symbolic" way) to second-class status.

On Hannity & Colmes, Gallagher asserted that the plank was a simple statement of a numerical fact. "If a neighborhood had 82 percent of the population that was Italian or a town had 82 percent of the population that was Polish, we'd call those communities Italian or Polish towns. So why do liberals have such a knee-jerk reaction when anybody dares to suggest that with 82 percent of the population being Christian—we are, in fact, a Christian nation?"

Well, for one, if a town council passed a resolution affirming that it was an Italian or Polish town, there'd be a strong reaction, too. Such a resolution would be perceived as a clear statement that members of other ethnic groups are not welcome.

If we're going by the numbers, why not have a party platform asserting that the United States is "a white nation"? After all, 77 percent of Americans are white.

As for the plank's historical aspects, few would dispute that Christianity has played a central role in American history and culture. But the foundation of the American political system rests at least in equal measure on the secular philosophy of the Enlightenment.

On Hannity & Colmes, the Rev. Jerry Falwell, the prominent evangelical leader, asserted that it is precisely because America is a Christian nation that Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, or atheist Americans enjoy the freedom they do. That statement, however, reeks of ignorance: Plenty of Christian nations have had a sad record of religious intolerance and persecution. America's religious freedom is the product of a unique blend of Judeo-Christian and Enlightenment values; as Susan Jacoby documents in her recent book, Freethinkers: A History of American Secularism, tension between these two strands of our culture has persisted throughout our history.

Numerically, the United States is a predominantly Christian nation. That's a factual statement—just like the statement that historically, Christianity has been a major force in our public life. But to call the United States a "Christian nation" is an assertion of ideology, not fact—particularly coming from the same corner that produces efforts to legislate religious beliefs about homosexuality or abortion.

The Republican Party's apparent embrace of such attitudes is troubling. It lends credence to the notion that our war against radical Islamic terrorism is a religious war. And it alienates many Americans who support the Republican values of limited government and strong defense but also regard the separation of church and state as a bedrock American principle, not a "myth."


Cathy Young is a Reason contributing editor. This column originally appeared in the Boston Globe.
 
I beleive there is value in a lot of religious writings...that doesn't mean the the US government should embrace them.
 
WarAngel said:
I beleive there is value in a lot of religious writings...that doesn't mean the the US government should embrace them.

Well the author isn't against religion, just against what Bush and other fundamentalist politicians want for the Government in terms of bringing religion into government.
 
orbital 123 said:
Well the author isn't against religion, just against what Bush and other fundamentalist politicians want for the Government in terms of bringing religion into government.

you are against religion though, arent you orbitroll
 
New Account said:
you are against religion though, arent you orbitroll

No I am not. I am against religion that tries to force others to comply with their religious beliefs though. Which is why I do not like Christian fundamentalists running a country and making decisions based on those fundamentalist ideas like the earth only being 6000 years old when science shows that it clearly is not. Kind of like when church leaders persecuted people who said the sun didn't revolve around the earth because it was against God.
 
orbital 123 said:
No I am not. I am against religion that tries to force others to comply with their religious beliefs though. Which is why I do not like Christian fundamentalists running a country and making decisions based on those fundamentalist ideas like the earth only being 6000 years old when science shows that it clearly is not. Kind of like when church leaders persecuted people who said the sun didn't revolve around the earth because it was against God.

this never happened
 
This should come as a surprise to no one. The religious right in the USA has been backing the Republican Party for decades. It only seems right doesn't it?

Robertson scams ignorant fools out of millions of dollars with BS and lies.

Bush scams ignorant fools out of millions of votes with BS and lies.

The "TV Evangelism" in the USA is proof that people will believe damn near anything that some guy tells them on TV. Send me a million dollars or God will strike me down. This is what Oral Roberts told these people and they ate it up. Hook, line and sinker. These are the same people that now believe Iraq or Saddam had something to do with terrorism against the USA, or that Bush is somehow good for the security of the USA.
 
I think its funny when people claim our system of laws is based on the 10 commandments. Not even close. Which commandments is it illegal to violate?

"I AM THE LORD THY GOD, THOU SHALT NOT HAVE strange gods BEFORE ME."

Not illegal.

"THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN."

Not illegal.

"REMEMBER THOU KEEP HOLY THE SABBATH DAY."

Not illegal.

"HONOR THY FATHER AND THY MOTHER."

Not illegal.

"THOU SHALT NOT KILL."

Illegal

"THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY."

Not illegal

"THOU SHALT NOT STEAL."

Illegal

"THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS AGAINST THY NEIGHBOR."

Not illegal, unless under oath.

"THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S WIFE."

Not illegal.

"THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S GOODS."

Not illegal.

Unless the Church was the one that decided killing and stealing wasn't a good idea, and people couldn't figure that out for themselves, the 10 commandments don't relate in any way to our government or our laws.
 
Tribal Imperialist said:
I think its funny when people claim our system of laws is based on the 10 commandments. Not even close. Which commandments is it illegal to violate?

"I AM THE LORD THY GOD, THOU SHALT NOT HAVE strange gods BEFORE ME."

Not illegal.

"THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN."

Not illegal.

"REMEMBER THOU KEEP HOLY THE SABBATH DAY."

Not illegal.

"HONOR THY FATHER AND THY MOTHER."

Not illegal.

"THOU SHALT NOT KILL."

Illegal

"THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY."

Not illegal

"THOU SHALT NOT STEAL."

Illegal

"THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS AGAINST THY NEIGHBOR."

Not illegal, unless under oath.

"THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S WIFE."

Not illegal.

"THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S GOODS."

Not illegal.

Unless the Church was the one that decided killing and stealing wasn't a good idea, and people couldn't figure that out for themselves, the 10 commandments don't relate in any way to our government or our laws.


Actually it is legal to kill but only if it is government sanctioned. ;)
 
I'm kinda amazed that this thread is happening tonight.
My daughter had one of her friends to our lake house tonight, and her friend is Islamic.
So, I asked her friend "Who would you vote for, if you could?"
She said "I'd vote for Mr. Kerry." kinda matter of factly (I guess she gets it from her mom, meaning the attitude).
So I asked her why, and she saud "Well, the mosque at home (meaning our hometown) has been painted with all kinds of stuff that's against my religion. I don't like that. I think it's mean, and that it shouldn't happen anymore."
Somewhat startled by her response, I asked "What will John Kerry do to stop it?"
She replied, more or less "Mr Kerry (note: I am very impressed by this 9 year old's use of the word Mr.) will stop pushing religious groups to hate people like me."

I honestly almost started crying. Hearing this from a 9 year old, who is one of my daughter's best friends, isn't a good experience.
All that I said in reply was "well, Adaira, I don't hate you, and in fact, I think you're pretty cool".
That had enough of an impact for her to brag to my daughter that I think she's cool.

I can't wait for a response from my daughter. I doubt I'll get one. But I think I have set a seed, that hopefully she won't be a discriminatory person in the future. Time will tell if it is a good seed, or a bad one, but as of this evening (when I left my daughter, because I had a date), she asked if she could have Adaira down to the lake next time.
I think things look ok, for now.
 
Orby something confuses me, you're extremely religious. The republican right is characterized as being extremely religious. What went wrong?
 
wait...and i was banned from TW twice...and this guy is still making posts?

WTF is wrong with the logic there?
 
blackie420rx said:
I'm kinda amazed that this thread is happening tonight.
My daughter had one of her friends to our lake house tonight, and her friend is Islamic.
So, I asked her friend "Who would you vote for, if you could?"
She said "I'd vote for Mr. Kerry." kinda matter of factly (I guess she gets it from her mom, meaning the attitude).
So I asked her why, and she saud "Well, the mosque at home (meaning our hometown) has been painted with all kinds of stuff that's against my religion. I don't like that. I think it's mean, and that it shouldn't happen anymore."
Somewhat startled by her response, I asked "What will John Kerry do to stop it?"
She replied, more or less "Mr Kerry (note: I am very impressed by this 9 year old's use of the word Mr.) will stop pushing religious groups to hate people like me."

I honestly almost started crying. Hearing this from a 9 year old, who is one of my daughter's best friends, isn't a good experience.
All that I said in reply was "well, Adaira, I don't hate you, and in fact, I think you're pretty cool".
That had enough of an impact for her to brag to my daughter that I think she's cool.

I can't wait for a response from my daughter. I doubt I'll get one. But I think I have set a seed, that hopefully she won't be a discriminatory person in the future. Time will tell if it is a good seed, or a bad one, but as of this evening (when I left my daughter, because I had a date), she asked if she could have Adaira down to the lake next time.
I think things look ok, for now.

wtf you sound like a pedophile.

And seriously, what kind of political conversation are you expecting to have with a 9 year old? Maybe you should try talking to her parents and look at discrimination through their eyes before you start condescending to a little girl
 
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