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TypicallyTerrible
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61 - 07-13-2017, 07:04 PM
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Last edited by TypicallyTerrible; 07-21-2017 at 12:33 AM.
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Groove
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62 - 07-13-2017, 08:14 PM
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kinda feel like proj is over on the midair forums arguing that rock paper scissors balance is the only way to balance base

Quote:
Originally Posted by proj
Another problem with this discussion is that a lot of people are talking about lctf, which has a razer thin margin for finding the correct balance of its elements, because there are so few of them. This is a time people should be looking to play ctf instead, where these problems are far less severe and impactful, and having a slightly overtuned or undertuned cg is not terribly egregious. In ctf, there are so many ways to deal with offense and defense and so many tuning knobs that it has more leeway in terms of balance. Underpowered cg for chasing? No big deal, you have the fighter, hofs, snipers, sensors, and the boost pack to make up for it. In lctf? You're SOL.
if they can't balance 3 weapons for LCTF, that makes me worried they aren't going to be able to balance 10 weapons and 20 packs

ive been fairly skeptical today after seeing that post, but i do think midair has the potential to have fairly well populated servers. as i said, i think the bones are there for a tribes game, we'll have to see how well they flesh it out.

i guess i typed a whole ****load of words when my answer to snows question about server population would be : depends on if the devs **** it up or not

i think deep down in any tribes fans hearts, we want it to be great - but we're not the ones making the decisions, all we can do is cross our fingers and toes and dicks and hope it goes well
 
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Last edited by Groove; 07-13-2017 at 09:25 PM. Reason: wanted to be more positive
hyung
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63 - 07-13-2017, 11:10 PM
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i think midair (as with most tribes successors) misses capturing the difficulty curve of the first tribes game that got most of us addicted in the first tribes game. the game was so hard to pick up initially that it attracted a very specific type of gamer that was drawn to the challenge, and drove away the rest. the same generation that grew up playing incredibly difficult NES games with unforgiving permadeath mechanics. the gamer thats drawn to games like super meat boy or rocket league - the kind of game that isn't afraid to put your head on a stick a hundred times in a row, but can be tamed and even mastered.

but instead, midair (like other tribes successors) decided to modernize the most difficult and iconic thing about tribes, and lowered the depth of the movement mechanic. sure tribes has minor aim skill and simple timing between teammates, but it's all trivial and uninteresting unless you're trying to do it all while hopping on one foot with one eye closed and a hand tied behind your back. what's hard about shooting at players moving in parabolic arches throughout the sky with no cover? what's difficult about timing attacks with 30 seconds of setup? how can this compete with the twitchy mechanical ability required by games like cs or quake? how can this compete with the pixel by pixel millisecond teamwork demanded by games like league or dota? why pretend that tribes is about the things that it's weakest at, instead of focusing on its strength, the skiing? why don't developers double down on the skiing mechanic and make it even more rewarding?

here's a terribly biased hypothetical scenario - suppose a group of friends got together to invent "unicycle polo", where people play polo while riding on a unicycle. initially, the game is impossible and nobody can even stay on the unicycle for more than 5 seconds, goals are almost never scored. as months pass, most people quit, but some keep at it, and those that stick with it eventually get the hang of it after a few months and fall in love with it. later than that, someone new joins and decides that the unicycles are too difficult and adds training wheels and calls it "unicycle polo 2.0".

this new version of "unicycle polo" attracts more people since it's way more approachable, and unicycle polo 2.0 has twice as many players as before! the game is faster since balancing isn't an issue, and players are able to aim better and do things that the first players couldn't even have dreamed of! the old generation mutters their discontent, but the new 2.0 players reassure them that the spirit of the game is still there - you've got teamwork, you've got polo, you've got a unicycle. but the first group of players - the ones that stuck it out - can't put their finger on why it doesn't feel quite the same and most of them walk away. well, who's right?

...maybe both? i think part of the difficulty of making a "modern tribes" is just that tribes as a series had so many different generations which each fell in love with something else. maybe some people liked the freedom of exploration going to the edges of the earth looking for easter eggs, while others liked the teamwork and coordination, maybe others liked the large scale war simulation and strategy with refined roles. some people liked the quake e-sporty aspect of the game, the others fell in love with the moddability and openness of it all. some people wanted to compete, others wanted to play goofy ass mods all day and smoke a joint unwind after work. maybe that's the real magic of the first game - that it was able to fulfill so many buckets for so many demographics of gamers.

in any case, my opinion is that just became some people fell in love with the original unicycle polo and some fell in love with unicycle polo 2.0 doesn't mean that any group is any more right than the other, regardless of which one came first or which one attracts more players. it just shouldn't come as a surprise to find out that most unicycle polo 1.0 players aren't that interested to play the version with training wheels, no matter how much the 2.0 players insist that they should.
 
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Sharps
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64 - 07-14-2017, 01:45 AM
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Nice post Opsayo. I do think it's interesting though that Midair pickup players are drawn from every game basically so it's oddly unifying in that respect. I also wonder whether it's possible to make skiing more punishing without devoting much dev time to it. Increasing fall damage would help but clearly that's not enough. In any event, I doubt skiing would ever get made more difficult.

Re: Groove. Most active players recognize that proj is completely talking out of his ass. Dunno if the dev team realizes it.
 
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Last edited by Sharps; 07-14-2017 at 01:47 AM.
Groove
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65 - 07-14-2017, 02:56 AM
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i mean, he's not wrong about tiny imbalances not being as much of a issue in base

but they're still issues.

you dont need a crazy powerful chain if you have snipers and turrets and hofs and ****, i get it, but like

the game won't always play out like that, there will be cluster times and there are going to be times where one team is clustering and the other has full gear

the cluster team still needs a chance to get back on their toes, so the core weapons and loadout need to be balanced and powerful enough to hold flags and turn the tide of base ownage and even clear and grab in

also agree with hyung about a lot of stuff especially about the 'compression of the skill gap' as someone referred to it, especially when it comes to skiing
 
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Laughing-Stork
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66 - 07-14-2017, 12:09 PM
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I've played unicycle polo for many year. I enjoyed playing with and against other people who were really good at it. Then those people stopped playing for one reason or another. I always thought it would be great if we could get new unicycles with c00l fkn graphics on them and maybe the good players would come back. But time went on and people got too busy to play unicycle polo.

Then I start playing 2.0 and found it to be really easy for me to pickup. It's not as fun as 1.0 but maybe people will play it and MAYBE some of the 1.0 guys will play too. Cuz I still love the polo side of this unicycle game and it is pretty close to the same old game.

Then I play 1.0 a few times with some dudes I don't really know, and these guys don't even play like I used to with my buds. They call me a cheater, they vote to disable the chaingun on my unicycle, they think I'm sleepy or ipman. And whenever anyone thinks it might be me, some say "nah stork aint as good as streetplayer." Guess dey don't know me like dey used to

So I realize why 2.0 is the way it is and enjoy playing against new players and showing them the ropes cuz I am a god on a unicycle and any1 who want 2 challenge me will get smak'd across dey teef wit mu peepee suaz sl0rp sl0rp
 
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hyung
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67 - 07-14-2017, 12:35 PM
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yeah it's still fun and i can appreciate the hard work that went into it and the design decisions that were made, it just doesn't pull on the same strings
 
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Last edited by hyung; 07-14-2017 at 03:07 PM. Reason: words
Laughing-Stork
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68 - 07-14-2017, 01:10 PM
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Ya and I'm still skeptical they are going to ruin the physics because too many Ascend players have *****ed about it. Could be a fun game, but prob not 10 years of fun.

But we got pubg and I love the taste of chicken dinner so atm I am gucci
 
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Groove
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69 - 07-15-2017, 01:19 AM
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dang stork top10 poster on tw today
 
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Laughing-Stork
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70 - 07-15-2017, 07:34 AM
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I only remember posting 4 times. Hmmmm
 
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DC.
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71 - 07-21-2017, 05:54 PM
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some longs posts on this page what happened can i get cliffs?
 
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slush
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72 - 07-29-2017, 04:47 PM
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No. You will read it.
 
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Flipp
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73 - 07-31-2017, 09:55 AM
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sperg thred
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badgamerz smdh lol
 
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sled
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74 - 08-28-2017, 11:28 AM
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Reitok will be top 5 player in Midair, mark my words.
 
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DC.
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75 - 09-09-2017, 10:09 PM
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slush u r that pansy ass t2 player fuk u. i read this page tho so i guess u win.

what type of a name is the perfumed garden come on man, be better than this
 
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DC.
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76 - 09-09-2017, 10:10 PM
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are u reitok, sled
 
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][BabyroacH][
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77 - 09-09-2017, 11:48 PM
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tribes 1 is fun because you can easily take routes that take no skill and get the job done. BUT you can also practice for months to create or practice advanced routes that are extremely difficult. Midair routes would take a day to master since there's basically no skill required. Smooth rolling hills have no consequences. How can they possibly keep someone's attention if the maps just require you to be able to operate a keyboard.
 
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mabelisacuck
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78 - 09-10-2017, 06:04 AM
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you'd be surprised at just how many people are unable to operate a keyboard
 
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~dickschnitzel~
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79 - 09-10-2017, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mabelisacuck View Post
you'd be surprised at just how many people are unable to operate a keyboard
dare r u back?
 
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DC.
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80 - 09-12-2017, 08:29 PM
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hi dare
 
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