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2good@tribes.com
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21 - 07-17-2012, 01:34
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Originally Posted by Calx View Post
watched 2nd pack of replays...

thoughts are pretty simple:

zvz was good, your scout drone pretty much won the game for you. delaying his expo that long pretty much won the game for you as everything else was nearly identical between both players the entire game long

zvt would have been a good game if he didn't move out so dumb, wasn't even maxed out and parked his whole army in 1 spot ON CREEP -_- instead of spreading it out

zvp was a nice hold. surprised thats what a barcode toss with a good record does in pvz... i'm guessing 7g +1 with 2 immortals wins more often than not with good micro? or most of his losses are to Z and he resorts to that all-in because there's no solid ways to beat Z atm on large map w/ equal skill

dunno u got nice control but none of those games u manhandle them.. they just let you expo and then walk into your creep when you have full tier 2+ tech and 3 base saturated economy
the game vs MxGMahv? I think the game was won because i hit a timing with ultras right before his ultras had their upgs (adrenal and chitnous)

i dunno what to say about the last part.. that's kind of what starcraft is to it core - a macro oriented game, build order optimization and unit control. I mean what you guys should be looking at is larva inject queen energy throughout the game, how fast the creep pushes, drone saturation -> things that make it so you can hit your timings faster/efficiently. The macro part of starcraft is priority #1 at all times. Unit control is also another way to maximize efficiency so you want to be looking at stuff like, spreading for concaves, getting flanks with lings, kiting etc.

It seems like if you guys arent criticizing MY play, its either because you cant tell where my leaks are, or that I'm not really making any. But those are the things you need to be focusing on to determine if a player is good or not.
 
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2good@tribes.com
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22 - 07-17-2012, 01:38
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RtsVicta's profile - SC2Ranks

one of the opponents u guys are calling awful.. I'd love to see what happens if he plays any of you :P
 
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Calx
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23 - 07-17-2012, 03:05
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in the zvz's there's nothing to criticize. even i can keep queen energy down in a zvz that short, the opps were just bad

the 2nd pack was better replays but unless you're just trying to show off that you are mechanically sound, nothing really replay-worthy happened (imo).

in the zvz, you're right - you won because you hit a crucial 1m window where you had ultras, he didn't, and beyond that he didn't have adrenal/chitin although tbh you couldn't have known that unless you were basing it off his hive timing; the play wouldn't have been possible without that major natural expo lead since there was no significant economic damage besides an equivalent amount of lost 3rd base

in the zvt, you played very well, but it was still a standard zvt. zvt is known for requiring the terran to display particularly high levels of control just to maintain competitive with speed blings. this terran did not have the control to play against you the way he did. he ran his marines in 1 group away. he put all his tanks together. he probably copied that playstyle from the GSL. his strategy was nonexistent after his cloak was scouted. the creep spread was very good, but this is like saying "look at my toss rep - check out how low my nexus energy is!" if you want validation that your mechanics are master level, here it is, they are master level. your unit control is pretty good, you didn't make any major bloopers controlwise.

in the zvp, same thing. you held the all-in that the toss did more or less blindly. the robo > 2 immo > ob along with the general lack of scouting from the protoss makes it clear - this is the kind of game where the toss is going to do an all-in he decided from the beginning, and will find out whether you can hold it or not. his record shows that most NA masters cannot hold that build, scouted or not. so congrats, your unit control is better than his victims since the chances are good that they had roughly the same economy at his attack timing and possibly no spines at 3rd

no one is going to give you major props for these types of replays because they were pretty standard games and nothing exceptional happened. in the zvt/zvp, it is particularly disappointing your opponents displayed no sense of strategy and made themselves out to be a highly-polished cookie-cutter build executor. the protoss made no attempt to tailor his all-in based on what you were doing, or what defense you put up, he clearly intended to all-in the way he did before the match started.

i know you're good but these replays are nothing exceptional and definitely do not showcase any talent. if i was to learn anything from these replays its "how to hold the 2 immo-7gate allin" and "how to deflect an uncommitted 4 hellion harass" because besides that the games played out relatively scripted.
 
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Last edited by Calx; 07-17-2012 at 03:11..
2good@tribes.com
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24 - 07-17-2012, 03:54
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thanks for taking the time to post calx

My purpose for these replays is just to show how to play very solid zerg at a high level, that's about it. I do think that most likely you don't really understand that a lot of starcraft 2 is about your ability to execute a build order very well. Im sure you watch GSL, thats what i mainly watch - PvZ generally comes down to some sort of all in/committed attack and if the zerg scouts + holds properly then they win, if protoss kills zergs 3rd, they win, thats how the game goes. You saying "your opponent just attacked with 7g +1 2 immortal and you held, nothing special" Well, thats how it goes down at the pro level as well my friend.

I'd really like to know what "replay worthy" is. the 2nd replay had 2 GMs, and 1 top 50 Masters. High level of play (for NA), dont know if being able to beat players like that qualifies as showing "no talent"

anyway gg thnx 4 checkin em out
 
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Calx
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25 - 07-17-2012, 14:23
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again, you are completely misreading my post if you think i am saying you have no talent -_- i said these replays showcase little talent and more of very strong mechanics. it is ridiculous to suggest that i do not value macro when i always mention it.

your opponent did not "just attack and you held" but the battle didn't play out in a really noteworthy fashion. i would say that in pro games and what makes replay worthy games in general is a high degree of control that makes the games fun to watch. the pvz was easily the best game out of the 5 replays you posted... and even on a strategic level was boring and more interesting to learn that a properly executed 3base into mass midgame roach beats that with not much more micro than a arc at your 3rd base ramp

yes i am aware of the pvz dynamic and all i can say is your opponents failed to make the games interesting for you i guess. his FF's were decent and not perfect and still lost the battle pretty solidly with no real chance for victory. the zvt is a great example. clearly the guy is good, has very strong mechanics (master level) but his reaction to getting his cloak scouted was pretty lame - it's almost like he gave up on the game. he gives up a serious econ disadvantage to an econ zerg by going cloak, fails to achieve any econ harass with hellions, fails to do any serious damage with the banshee, and then proceeds to play the game cookie cutter AND move out before maxed against a superior econ zerg? strategically it's bad play. i could flip the shoe on your foot and say that YOU don't understand how to play mental games in sc2 and rely heavily on raw macro to win you games. since you watch GSL you'll know that there are players that are particularly cunning, and then players that are mechanically solid. the very best players are the ones who have both (mvp, drg, genius).

your opponents really didn't play well enough to force you to come up with something sneaky. the zvz was the closest game and was won by a hair (game would have looked completely different if you hadn't stalled his natural) and the zvp/zvt were landslides. the thing about pvz builds is that if you're not winning the battle in the first engagement, it's not going to get better for you by waiting for more warp cycles. Z reinforces that spot WAY faster than P and so watching the replay, i knew this toss had no real chance of winning even before the first fight. with his ob, so did he... is it so much to ask, for replays of close games? lol if you're going to call them clinics at least show a timing attacks that works instead of claiming sc2 skill is to macro as hard as they can and deflect all attacks which is pretty much something specific to Z
 
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Last edited by Calx; 07-17-2012 at 14:25..
2good@tribes.com
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26 - 07-17-2012, 15:17
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lol the zvz was not won by the hatch deny of like ~5 secs man. It helps, its why i do it, but its not the reason i won. I won cause i got lucky with a timing, other than that it was pretty much dead even. Again, these replays are here to showcase what it takes to be a strong macro zerg. Not much more - inject timing, creep spread, spending larvae right away etc. Of course i have games where there is a sick baneling mine that wins me the game, but if i show u that you'll just say my opponent was retarded for not scanning and walking over it. Games where i am maxed on brood lord infestor, neural his mothership and use vortex on his own army, **** like that - i mean those are "cool" i guess but its not really what makes a good starcraft player. it's mainly the macro side and build order optimization - thats the MAIN thing. All i wanted to show was that you can compete with very good players based on macro alone, thats pretty much all i wanted to show.
 
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Calx
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27 - 07-17-2012, 16:14
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well thats for sure. anyone saying you can't just build more **** to win should def watch these reps
 
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2good@tribes.com
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28 - 07-17-2012, 17:12
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also ive watched over 100+ replays of DRG, not once does he do anything "sneaky" or 'replay worthy' ****. His injects are boss, creep spread boss, unit control boss, scouting boss. Super standard yet the best player in the world.
 
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Calx
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29 - 07-17-2012, 17:48
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Originally Posted by 2good@tribes.com View Post
also ive watched over 100+ replays of DRG, not once does he do anything "sneaky" or 'replay worthy' ****. His injects are boss, creep spread boss, unit control boss, scouting boss. Super standard yet the best player in the world.
well ofc you'd say drg, that's definitely his profile.. perhaps its a zerg thing as nestea was also known for the same thing (just being too good overall). actually come to think of it your playstyle is definitely drg-inspired

but there are other great players who are known for specific things: mkp, mc, mvp, jyp, huk, naniwa, july, etc. who manage to be very competitive at those levels while still having a recognizable playstyle. however, having super good macro doesn't translate into wins as easily for the other 2 races
 
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Griever
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30 - 07-18-2012, 22:22
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LOL at walls of text and rage at replays

only reason the players look bad is because copa is good

it's like watching finals of a big tournament where one player owns the other one; doesn't mean the guy who took 2nd place is bad

ps: don't ****
 
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2good@tribes.com
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31 - 07-19-2012, 03:01
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sup grasshoppah

3 games from 2 set of replay are GM players, me making them look bad = no talent

tribalwar: where logic happens
 
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Calx
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32 - 07-19-2012, 16:15
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actually im higher rated than rtsVicta, so hilarious that you discount my opinion to defend him "probably beating all of us" based on rank alone when i was a 1k+ point master in the season i decided to actually play more than 50 games of 1v1 and rank up to prove a point
 
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2good@tribes.com
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33 - 07-19-2012, 20:41
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ive played you before, you are quite bad iirc. And rtsvicta is not GM.. lavacake and barcode guy are.
 
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Calx
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34 - 07-19-2012, 22:30
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Originally Posted by 2good@tribes.com View Post
ive played you before, you are quite bad iirc. And rtsvicta is not GM.. lavacake and barcode guy are.
yeah because clearly players never get better and those games were when i was playing less than 50 1v1 games per season

if you're not going to talk objectively and overestimate all your opponents simply because you played them to make yourself look more skilled in comparison theres no point in participating these threads

you use rank as a metric in every post prior to this, then i bring up how my rank is higher than your opp (the one you specifically linked as "would own us all") and suddenly now only your experience matters

those games were better and the players were good but nothing changes the fact that those games were not all that great as far as displaying skill. go ahead and stick to your story of these guys being unfathomly better than everyone posting here when he went for a blind immortal allin because in reality he was probably just practicing a ladder build on NA and an identical build zvz are boring as **** matches

thats ignoring the fact that the one match we played was a 7pool match where i scouted your position last.. thats your experience with me, just so lol
 
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Last edited by Calx; 07-19-2012 at 22:38..
2good@tribes.com
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35 - 07-19-2012, 23:12
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ill gladly play you if you honestly think you're anywhere close to my level. I dont overestimate my opponents, I just watched IdrA's stream and he lost to the exact same build/opponent/map (i creeped his history > found my match against the barcode GM) as me. If you can hold off a perfectly executed 2 base immortal all in, it means you had close to PERFECT macro at the bare minimum, but you dont appreciate it because you don't really understand what the game is about. It's why you'll never be close in skill to me. In a BO 10 i bet you prob couldnt take a single game off me.
 
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Griever
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36 - 07-20-2012, 23:49
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here comes a new challenger, calx vs 2god@tribe

post replay soon plz
 
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Calx
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37 - 07-21-2012, 04:45
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you posted your replays, you asked for opinions, everyone agrees except you, clearly you're the only sane one in this forum
 
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2good@tribes.com
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38 - 07-21-2012, 14:35
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LOL DODGE

i never asked for opinions, i asked for you nerds to look at my replays and talk about how good I am. Instead you guys talk about my opponents and all this other **** that doesnt make sense because you guys are all very low level players.

feel free to dodge like the newbies you are. The only respectable player in this forum is PZSnixSnipe and that dude still gets crushed by me.
 
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Gun$linga
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39 - 07-21-2012, 15:46
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you do realize that ladder means **** all

my 2 cents
 
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2good@tribes.com
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40 - 07-21-2012, 15:56
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well if we're going down that route we might as well say anything related to skill in video games mean **** all, since afterall, its just a video game.
 
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