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Die Hard
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21 - 01-19-2012, 12:37
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All saber wielding classes have leap/charge, it's not just for marauder, doesn't matter when you get knocked down again after leaping up anyway.

While Juggernaut can also leap to friendly targets, have knock back (Force Push), and actually have a ranged attack (saber throw). Did you know Marauder is the only class with no ranged attack? Marauder's saber throw abilities are 10 yard while Jugg's get 30 yard, wtf is that all about?

Of course, don't even get me started on inquisitors, aoe knockback, 8 second cc, an on-demand sprint ability, shield. There is a fire in front of me? lol i'll just shield myself and spring through it! Have force pull, stealth and a 10 second vanish as assassin (marauder has a 4 second one, again wtf?)

Compared to other classes marauder utilities absolutely suck, the only decent ones are group buffs that require us to first build up 30 fury. Yea we can do decent damage if left alone but the class is like a Fury Warrior in light armor, squishy as hell without cooldowns up.

The best part about the class is not having to worry about getting nerfed.
 
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PessimiStick
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22 - 01-19-2012, 12:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Die Hard View Post
All saber wielding classes have leap/charge
No they don't. Only the two warrior classes do.

Quote:
Did you know Marauder is the only class with no ranged attack? Marauder's saber throw abilities are 10 yard while Jugg's get 30 yard, wtf is that all about?
Also false. Assassin/Shadow have nothing over 10 yards either, except Force Pull if tank specced, and Force Lightning if you burn a cooldown that you should use for damage instead.
 
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Die Hard
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23 - 01-19-2012, 13:21
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ah didn't know they don't have charge, i coulda sworn a double-sided light saber wielding char leaped at me yesterday.
 
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AdreNaLiNe
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24 - 01-19-2012, 13:24
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Maurader/Sent is just poorly designed. On my shadow, I lose almost no damage in combat stance and gain 25% damage reduction, which seems pretty broken for a cloth wearer. I **** marauders/full dps classes 1v1, and lose to hybrids in 1v1. In a full team environment, I find myself to be very useful between KB, snare, stun, KD, and consistently high damage output from each ability. But I lack true burst.

If you find yourself to be useless as a tank, you certainly aren't. Juggs and Guards do mitigate a lot of damage. With 25% crit it isn't guaranteed. They certainly can kill me/do damage before dying. They also hit pretty hard and have good utility. That Pushback is ridiculously good in games like Huttball. Every class has their utilities. But at the moment, I would rank sorcs/sages dps to be entirely too good, too complete. BHs spamming tracer missiles makes them very powerful with very little though. "Hmm, who do I target first." I really am enjoying shadow. It seems to be more like a druid/rogue combo, and operatives seem to be vanilla rogue style pvp. Inevitably, enough crying will get them probably unjustly nerfed. I don't run into problems with operaties in my defense stance or my heavy armor commando. Ironically, it is sages that probably complain about them the most.

No one is really crying about a shadow in defensive stance. I can: guard, do dps minus 200 damage 25% proc. Instead, I get 50% proc, 50 damage, 50 heal. I trade a powerful hitting force breach for an AOE force breach with like half the damage. which is great for stopping caps/doors etc.

1 KD, 1 SS (1 more if proc), 2 clairstrikes, crit chance on force ability buff + project buff from clair strikes makes my project hit for 2.5k.

When popping pots, I can do the same damage as an operative popping pots within 12-14 seconds instead of 6-8 seconds. And I get a lot more utility and damage reduction.

Sorry for rambling.
 
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AdreNaLiNe
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25 - 01-19-2012, 14:24
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Understanding SWTOR***8217;s Avoidance and Mitigation Mechanics for Tanks in PVP Taugrim's MMO Blog

Courtesy of Mountaindewmike.
 
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MountainDewMike
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26 - 01-19-2012, 20:07
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On my Vanguard I am speccing Shield Specialist at lower levels as it provides good utility. I will be respeccing to Assault Specialist soon and running a pure DPS spec and using Ion Cell when I'm with a healer. I lose a bit of DPS but it's well worth the minor DPS loss to be able to use guard when I'm with a healer. I tested builds extensively on my 50 BH and really enjoyed having killing power but also able to guard and taunt. I will be using DPS gear and a shield in my offhand.
 
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d0ur
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27 - 01-21-2012, 13:13
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isn't tactics built a bit more around having ion cell up? assault really wants you to have plasma cell where as tactics you can just avoid the high energy cell talents.

Ion as assault means a bunch of your talents aren't being used at all. Chances are once rateds are out you will want ion cell at all times.

i'm either going tactics and shield(8) for SS/Ion cell or going shield to storm and then tactics to gut. Its actually a pretty decent spec b/c charge helps a ton and you still get gut and you just shockstrike like a madman. Need to see how both are once i'm fully pvp geared though.

also wearing a sheild and full dps gear.
 
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hh_cloud
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28 - 01-22-2012, 11:42
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The only thing that matters in PVP is damage reduction, the rest are a bunch of **** right now. I can wear full PVP tanking gear and get crit for 1530 by backblast or put on my PVE DPS gear and get hit for 1600.

Big ****ing whoop, the damage I gain is too much to give up for the minor loss of damage, it's all in the stance/cell, aka, 60% more armour and damage reduction.
 
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AdreNaLiNe
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29 - 01-23-2012, 14:45
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So you're saying that the 20% swap means you can do 20% more damage in your PvE gear? In other words, 10% for damage boost + 10% damage reduction = 20% total boost on both ends, and you would rather use PvE gear for a 20% damage increase?

Are you sure PvE gear achieves that much at the BM/Champion level, compared with Nightmare/Hardmode?

One other note on that: it's hilarious seeing gear with so much endurance on it for PvE for a DPS class. Umm, wtf?
 
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hh_cloud
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30 - 01-23-2012, 23:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdreNaLiNe View Post
So you're saying that the 20% swap means you can do 20% more damage in your PvE gear? In other words, 10% for damage boost + 10% damage reduction = 20% total boost on both ends, and you would rather use PvE gear for a 20% damage increase?

Are you sure PvE gear achieves that much at the BM/Champion level, compared with Nightmare/Hardmode?
My brother has a 50 scoundrel (Yes, one that can bang bang bang dead you in 3-4 sec). I'm also fully geared for tanking gear in PVP/PVE (Now working on my DPS Gear for both since guild no longer needs another tank and almost completed that, rng yay)

I logged it in on the night I posted that and did lots of testing, I'm not sure where you got 20% from but the ability to take damage compared to the ability to deal damage is skewed majorily in the favour of doing more damage.

There's absolutely no question about it in my mind, people can theory craft all they want, I go in game and in a decent team(like anyone) I can wreck stuff so much faster and live just as long because I run in my tanking stance, in dps gear. You cannot shield special attacks and only a complete retard is going to spam basic level 1 abilities which you can shield.

The problem is right there, the only difference in player vs. player is damage reduction, I have depending on what I want, 47-49.5% of it, compared to a non tanks 28-30%(heavy gear class), we have a 20% bonus ahead of everyone else in good gear, that's it. Nothing else.

We could go into damage reduction cooldowns, but it only lasts 10 and 12 seconds, at least 3/4 of which if you see they use (pretty ****ing obvious blue ball of light), kite, run away, pillar hump, or stun for those stupid ****ing 8 seconds because you sure as hell not gonna waste your break-free on that.


1: I think in short what I'm saying is tanks are pretty ****ty as they are alone.
2: Put them with a healer they are unstoppable, but hit like a wet paper towel, although enough to eventually kill someone.
3: But so does everyone else with a personal healer.
4: So I went in DPS gear and it's a whole better deal while still having decent abilities to take almost as much damage as I could before.

I mean heck it was fun before running around in full tanking gear with 21k~ HP and a buttload of defensive stats but the more I looked at it, the more I realised a lot of these talents/stats don't help in PVP.

Which worries me, because if they make shielding work on all attacks amongst other things, yea... fully specced tanks may just have that edge they ...hmm, probably don't need? hard to say :/


Aforementioned brother was also a healer prior to him going DPS, it was a lot of fun in a tank/healer duo in pvp, as long as I kept my eye on the ball and used all my taunt's/CCs and guarded him 4 people weren't a problem at all. But we do so much better as our new roles.

I take all of this from in game application rather than theory, so much a difference I can talk about it because I notice the change that much.


Edit:

Obviously, a 1600 crit going to 1520ish whatever it was is going to change to a bigger differences when you crit for 5k, or 7k, but people don't hit me for that much. Sad thing is I've never played a scoundrel, I just logged in his account and proceeded to turn my Guardian into paste all over the coruscant docking area doing the "opener" 50 ish+ times to get some rough numbers.

Amonst other abilities, during knock down and not.
 
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Last edited by hh_cloud; 01-23-2012 at 23:57..
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