DoK stats

So I've been working up my Disciple (currently level 11, RR 10) to play with friends on Monolith. I decided to throw all my renown points thus far into Willpower, as I'm really focusing on healing in scenarios. I just got my 3rd level of Resolve last night, putting my Willpower up to 140.

So, for the sake of balance, I'm going to start investing my renown in something a bit more combat oriented and I'd like to hear TW's opinions. I figure either Strength or Toughness is the way to go. Strength has the benefit of increasing some of my healing (Rend Soul) and obviously doing a bit more damage, but Toughness will keep my guy on his feet longer.

So how would you rate the importance of stats for a primarily-healing DoK? I'm planning on going Dark Rites if that makes a difference.

Any DoK or WP players care to weigh in? Thanks.

I teetered back and forth on my WP between Str and Toughness. I ended up balancing both and can do between 50-75k heal/dam with this and half salv/half grace tree (not sure about DoK trees). I think this is pretty fair in terms of contribution to the scenario, as opposed to a pure healbot.. A few things: I usually hit squishies as I don't have the distribution to invest in weapon skill, I eventually get focus targeted unless we're playing a dumb squad so that takes away from the str portion of the build as backliners can take care of things with at least a little more protection (cept witchelves)

I say: try both if you have enough gear and see what suits your playstyle

DoK > WP in every regard. You can heal pretty well, you can tank, you can do dmg, DoKs are nuts.

I just hit 32 with my DOK. They are much less appealing as you get higher level. They're completely insane at tier 1, tier 2, but after that you end up having to pick.. Either melee or healing. And they do neither as good as the primary classes. Its not like they are rogue/priests that are 90% as effective as either like they are at 11.

Atm im dark rites, and they act as sort of a buffer inbetween melee and healer lines. They're decent when you have a real good shaman or Zealot spike healing, that way you can focus on keeping people topped off, but still theres a fundamental problem with the class... The group utility is ok with covenant of celerity, and a few additional buffs/debuffs, but all the same I still think the spot is better utilized by another main class.

I dunno, im getting a little disenchanted with the class atm.

You know what's ironic, after reading many class posts on warhammeralliance, most everyone feels this way in Tier 4. Wonder why

I just hit 32 with my DOK. They are much less appealing as you get higher level. They're completely insane at tier 1, tier 2, but after that you end up having to pick.. Either melee or healing. And they do neither as good as the primary classes. Its not like they are rogue/priests that are 90% as effective as either like they are at 11.

Atm im dark rites, and they act as sort of a buffer inbetween melee and healer lines. They're decent when you have a real good shaman or Zealot spike healing, that way you can focus on keeping people topped off, but still theres a fundamental problem with the class... The group utility is ok with covenant of celerity, and a few additional buffs/debuffs, but all the same I still think the spot is better utilized by another main class.

I dunno, im getting a little disenchanted with the class atm.

I think most people in t4 start to see their classes "zomg" factor go down as all other classes are getting all their counter abilities, and it really lends itself to grouping correctly / with good players. If not, you aren't reaching your full potential and it feels like you're less than useful.

I've gone from Salv to Wrath on my WP (healbot to dmgbot) and I feel less useful, but only because it requires groupmates to be on point about defense and knockbacks - something the order just isn't focused on right now on our server.

Thanks for the input. Right now at the top of T1 my DoK is a force in scenarios. He takes a beating, dishes out decent damage, and I'm always in the top 3 for healing. I don't expect it'll stay that way...each character is going to rise and fall a bit in the tiers.

As I get more gear it seems like a lot of items have Strength, but very few are boosting Toughness or Wounds. I think I'll throw my next 10 renown into Toughness so I can stay in the fight longer.

So I've been working up my Disciple (currently level 11, RR 10) to play with friends on Monolith. I decided to throw all my renown points thus far into Willpower, as I'm really focusing on healing in scenarios. I just got my 3rd level of Resolve last night, putting my Willpower up to 140.

So, for the sake of balance, I'm going to start investing my renown in something a bit more combat oriented and I'd like to hear TW's opinions. I figure either Strength or Toughness is the way to go. Strength has the benefit of increasing some of my healing (Rend Soul) and obviously doing a bit more damage, but Toughness will keep my guy on his feet longer.

So how would you rate the importance of stats for a primarily-healing DoK? I'm planning on going Dark Rites if that makes a difference.

Any DoK or WP players care to weigh in? Thanks.if you're planning to sit in the back and heal, then toughness is of less importance. by the time people are hitting you that usually means all the people infront of you are dead anyways.

if you're in the front lines then toughness would be more valuable than stacking wounds only due to taking damage from multiple sources.

the dark rites tree is very valuable while leveling; you are much more valuable in scenarios and the boost to rend soul is beneficial. soul shielding it pretty cool.

i will say this though: in tier 1 and tier 2, the dok is pretty OP. Now would be a good time to stack str and toughness and try torture to go around bushwhacking people.

Once you get into t3, you will be better suited healing or playing a more passive/opportunistic role.

DoK > WP in every regard. You can heal pretty well, you can tank, you can do dmg, DoKs are nuts.a dok is not nearly as durable... and tank?

tank what? giant spiders?

if you're in the front lines then toughness would be more valuable than stacking wounds only due to taking damage from multiple sources.


Not to sound stupid, but can you explain this? Is it because Toughness is reducing damage per hit? Also, would you say Armor is more of a factor in melee than Toughness or the other way around?

Thanks for the advice. I'm not spending a ton of times on the frontlines currently. I mostly heal on the tanks/mdps and when enemy attackers slip through I protect our casters. I do jump into the front if it feels like the balance is starting to tip one way or the other (if that makes sense) but I often have to pull back pretty quickly as the BWs tend to pick me out for fiery death.


tank what? giant spiders?

lol

toughness is a straight up dps reduction.
wounds is just more health

1v1 they are the same
2v1 toughness wins because it reduces the damage instead of just creating a larger window.

wounds is still very useful. all the mitigation in the world won't matter if the incoming damage is large enough.

personally I love toughness no matter what class because I feel it gives the healers more time. I stack a lot of it for pvp.

Not to sound stupid, but can you explain this?

I couldn't remember why toughness > wounds against multiple targets, but I just figured it out. Since toughness knocks off x damage per second, it becomes more effective when you have multiple people attacking you. Say your toughness reduces damage by -10 dps. If you have 10 people attacking you at 10 dps, that's 0 damage total. If you have 1 person attacking you at 100 dps, then it's going to be 90 damage.

EDIT: nevermind, actually I still don't get it. What I said above is just valid for big hits vs bunch of little hits. Say 10 witch elf hits kill you, then it doens't matter if 10 WEs kill you in 1 hit or 1 WE kills you in 10 hits... toughness isn't going to be anymore effective.

ah but in your example it takes 10 witch elfs to kill you with 1 hit each. without toughness it might only take 9 because you aren't decreasing any dps which is why tough > wounds for multi

toughnes vs wounds doesn't really matter in a 1 v 1 situation with no healing, but as soon as you're getting healed toughness comes out way ahead, because for each hitpoint your healed it's harder for them to take it back down, effectively making the heals you get more powerful

Cool, that all makes sense. My DoK can supply his own healing, obviously, so seems like the Toughness will take precedence.

ah but in your example it takes 10 witch elfs to kill you with 1 hit each. without toughness it might only take 9 because you aren't decreasing any dps which is why tough > wounds for multi

What lol? You could say the exact same thing about wounds... Without wounds it might only take 9 people to kill you.

There's no doubt in my mind that toughness > wounds for DoKs (well obviously without neglecting wounds completely).

What I'm curious about is how toughness improves specifically when being attacked by multiple people.

EDIT: when i brought up the example of 10 WEs, I meant I don't see how the effectiveness of toughness improves because 10 distinct WEs are attacking you as opposed to 1 WE attacking you 10 times. Sorta like how the effectiveness of toughness improves when you receive heals.

Wounds and Toughness = EHP - Warhammer Forums (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100152&highlight=toughness+calcu lation&page=1)

it's pretty hard to figure out so I just use the generalization of multiple dps = tough better and burst = wounds better but over all balance the two. I'll give them a few months to argue about it and figure out better and better formulas. for now I'm leaning tough first, wounds second because as a melee character there are usually multiple attackers hitting me. things might change as the theoryhammer formulas are able to better consider more variables such as crits, armor mitigation, resists, and even incoming heals.

DoK > WP in every regard. You can heal pretty well, you can tank, you can do dmg, DoKs are nuts.

:rolleyes: What makes think that?

Wounds and Toughness = EHP - Warhammer Forums (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100152&highlight=toughness+calcu lation&page=1)

it's pretty hard to figure out so I just use the generalization of multiple dps = tough better and burst = wounds better but over all balance the two. I'll give them a few months to argue about it and figure out better and better formulas. for now I'm leaning tough first, wounds second because as a melee character there are usually multiple attackers hitting me. things might change as the theoryhammer formulas are able to better consider more variables such as crits, armor mitigation, resists, and even incoming heals.

I usually stack wounds over toughness because morale abilities don't take toughness into account and 90% of the time the burst that morale abilities cause is what takes me out. When I die I usually go from 70 or 50% to 0 almost instantly and look in my combat log and I got hit with a magebolt or severed nerve (or even two or both at a time) + a fireball/doombolt full darkmagic/combustion crit.

Wounds and Toughness = EHP - Warhammer Forums (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100152&highlight=toughness+calcu lation&page=1)

it's pretty hard to figure out so I just use the generalization of multiple dps = tough better and burst = wounds better but over all balance the two. I'll give them a few months to argue about it and figure out better and better formulas. for now I'm leaning tough first, wounds second because as a melee character there are usually multiple attackers hitting me. things might change as the theoryhammer formulas are able to better consider more variables such as crits, armor mitigation, resists, and even incoming heals.

if multiple people are attacking you, doesn't that necessarily mean that it's going to be bigger burst damage? Well either way, I realized what's going on. I skimmed the thread, but I think what was said is that multiple sources improve the effectiveness of wounds. People are misinterpreting a source as a person. A source is a source of damage, like a spell, auto-attack, etc.

So two things (at least?) affect the wounds vs toughness debate.
1) The effectiveness of toughness improves with more healing received
2) The effectiveness of toughness changes dependent on the 'type' of damage received. It won't be as effective for big, slow attacks (like BW attacks I guess?), but it will be more effective for weak but quick attacks (like WP attacks)

So the actual number of people attacking you somewhat irrelevant (well besides the fact that you're going to die faster).