Wow lets make the spy even more powerful.

I started reading this guys request and i started laughing like the rest of the peeps on the Valve TF2 forum.

posted by smyger:

VALVe, this is directed towards you:

Why do you keep nerfing the Spy? He is already by far the weakest class in the game and he doesn't need any more setbacks. And if you even check this forum once a week you'd know that just about everyone agrees. A little at least.

Now, apparently you've added a delay between disguising and cloaking(?). Now that's not a big nerf, but it's still negative.

Now I stopped playing Spy a long time ago(3 weeks) because it simply wasn't fun dying every time I got a successful backstab, because some Pyro came around a corner the exact same second. I guess you think "well, then it's not your problem is it?".

Well it is. I want to know if I'll ever be able to play the most fun class in the game again. Now he's just the most frustrating.
In the first few months I ruled as Spy. I usually got a score at around 100 every Dustbowl game. It was very easy, and a lot of fun, because no one spy-checked and no one knew how to handle an encounter with a Spy. I'm not saying that it should be that easy, but just easy enough to not die every single time I venture out of my base.

These days everyone spy-checks. All the time. I do, and everywhere I look there's someone shooting at a teammate. The last weeks of my Spy-career I relied much more on cloak than I did before. Because my disguise just didn't help at all anymore. Even though I got more kills now, I still got crit-rocketed and bombed even when I was cloaked.

What I propose is some/all of these:

1. Longer Cloak Time.
2. Faster cloak regen while standing still.
3. "More interactive disguises". Make the Spy able to do more things the enemy can. Like using their team chat.
4. Less flickering. Example: Only flickers when shot, not walked into.
5. Faster runspeed. Speed him up a little, to the Medics speed.
6. Backstab animation after a successful backstab. By Dysan-XI.
7. Make him more viable in combat. Right now he's less than a potent fighter. Give him shotty at least. (BTW, "shotty" isn't supposed to be taken seriously.)
8. Cloak fully regens at supply cabinet. Slowly from dispensers.
9. Cloak doesn't fade in/out so slowly.


Now all of these together would definitely make him overpowered, but some would make him a much more potent class. He would be good for something other than taking bullets for the team and killing one Heavy every hour.

That's what I think, at least. Discuss and flame if you like. But good, creative replies would be great

And, VALVe. If you have a reason for all these nerfs to the class, please at least let us know that.

why were you laughing? the spy is ridiculously difficult to be effective as, even in 24/7 instant respawn 2fort pubs. some of his ideas for ways to help the spy get up to the level of usefulness of the rest of the classes are good. take the pyro upgrades as an example: the pyro was a nearly worthless class before the buff, and now actually has a purpose beyond guarding sentries.

The only thing that makes sense on that list is faster cloak regen while standing still. 1, 3, 4, 5, and 6 are all to make up for lack of skill. The spy shouldn't be fighting. Magnum is better than shotgun as the whole point is to retreat and still be effective shooting. 8 and 9 are stupid as a spy being around dispensers and ammo boxes means he's defending. Spies shouldn't be anywhere near those things.

As a spy, you're not going to be a killing machine. You cause chaos for the other team. There's been times where the other team has thought there were three spies on our team while I was the only one. You can also break open a stalemate with a perfect backstabbing run or a set of turret saps.

why were you laughing? the spy is ridiculously difficult to be effective as, even in 24/7 instant respawn 2fort pubs. some of his ideas for ways to help the spy get up to the level of usefulness of the rest of the classes are good. take the pyro upgrades as an example: the pyro was a nearly worthless class before the buff, and now actually has a purpose beyond guarding sentries.

Because this guy wants to be a offensive juggernaut with a spy when pretty much his job is to slip behind enemy lines, also i smart spy does not cloak as soon as he walks into the enemy base. I never play spy cause im a magnet to pyro's but ive seen some pretty bad ass spy's that can keep your base down long enough to get the Intel out of the base. giving a spy a shotgun is stupid to boot.

i like going pyro when the other team has a buncha spies around. burnnnnnn

I think the spy could use a few buffs imo... I usually only find him useful when im playing against noobs. I find it hard to get across enemy lines when the opposing team is shooting everyone in sight.

spy is mostly just fine. fix the backstabs/facestab bugs, give the medic disguise a +% ubercharge, make disguises naturally show 100% (or maybe something adjustable by the spy) and he is just fine. Maybe an increase to cloak recharge time is the only real justifiable buff. I think it would be neat if a cloaked spy could stand motionless in a corner and never run out of cloak.

But seriously, wtf at those suggestions? Not effective in combat? I can run around with just the revolver & cloak and pwn pyros and average soldiers all day long.

cloak usage based on distance traveled, and not time would be interesting. what issues could arise?

and yea, spy is fine the way it is now, imo. the people who can masterfully use the spy (not me) can dominate.

3. "More interactive disguises". Make the Spy able to do more things the enemy can. Like using their team chat.


:rofl: now that actually made me laugh out loud... this kid is a fucking circus

edit: oh my bad, i thought he meant use the enemy teamchat... is that what he meant?

I've never really had a problem with playing in spy. Even after the pyro upgrades, I learned to deal with it.

Lack of skill should not be blamed on gameplay or developers IMO.

If you need skill, check out these vids:
"Advanced Spy Ninja Tutorial"
YouTube - Team Fortress 2: Advanced Spy Ninja Tutorial. {1 of 3} (http://youtube.com/watch?v=d87QCn_cafI)
YouTube - Team Fortress 2: Advanced Spy Ninja Tutorial. {2 of 3} (http://youtube.com/watch?v=eJHwvTa2F6c&feature=related)
YouTube - Team Fortress 2: Advanced Spy Ninja Tutorial. {3 of 3} (http://youtube.com/watch?v=7AcdVsZSlbc&feature=related)

Some seriously cool stuff, especially in the 3rd vid where he shows you tons of alternate paths across maps (jumping between things).

why were you laughing? the spy is ridiculously difficult to be effective as, even in 24/7 instant respawn 2fort pubs. some of his ideas for ways to help the spy get up to the level of usefulness of the rest of the classes are good. take the pyro upgrades as an example: the pyro was a nearly worthless class before the buff, and now actually has a purpose beyond guarding sentries.

There's your problem. What's the point of having a strategic FPS game like TF2 when you can just respawn instantly when dead? There's no incentive to stay alive and no benefit to playing smarter.

I think that's his point. People don't care as much about spy checking because if they die they're right back in play. Therefore it should be easier to play spy but it's still very difficult, although my opinion doesn't mean much since i rarely play spy.

Personally I'm no good at spy because I go stealth for approximately 2 seconds, get tired of it, and then just try to backstab the closest person regardless of what else is going on around me.

There's your problem. What's the point of having a strategic FPS game like TF2 when you can just respawn instantly when dead? There's no incentive to stay alive and no benefit to playing smarter.

You're right, instant respawn sucks in this game.

As MH stated, I was pointing out the fact that even when you're playing spy in the easiest environment possible for the class (instant respawn server = nubs + rare spy checking, 2fort = nubs), being effective as a spy is still much more difficult than being effective as another class.

You're right, instant respawn sucks in this game.

As MH stated, I was pointing out the fact that even when you're playing spy in the easiest environment possible for the class (instant respawn server = nubs + rare spy checking, 2fort = nubs), being effective as a spy is still much more difficult than being effective as another class.

There is nothing wrong with insta-spawn and no the coining of nub cause people like to play in there is stupid. maybe nobody wants to wait 15 seconds to get back to the action. Im sorry but long spawn times is Zzzzzzzzzzz. Im not in the server trying to be MR TEAM PLANET ALLSTAR, I just wanna have fun and frag with my freinds thats why its called a Pub not the CAL ladder server club.

A lot of the people that play in 24/7 instant respawn 2fort servers are nubs. Just look at darksabre.

Spy is the one class I have yet to wrap my brain around in game.

Spy is the one class I have yet to wrap my brain around in game.

spy and demoman for me :/

A lot of the people that play in 24/7 instant respawn 2fort servers are nubs. Just look at darksabre.

:as

I think the thing with spies is it requires a different mindset than most classes. You have to be patient, you have to learn to feint and create illusions, and you have to learn to not only learn to use the shortcuts but also to see them as well. Most FPS games you are taught to run in guns blazing, and you simply can't do that as a spy. You have to learn to bide your time, move differently than normal, and time your attacks properly.

I wish I could wrap my brain around it myself, but it seems the really annoying ones that make spy look overpowered have and they know their class and they play it very well. And the only change I would agree with is cloak being recharged faster at dispensers and med-cabinets. Such things tend to be in your own territory, and I don't think it would aid you much to backtrack ro re-fill the cloak. The smart spy would use disguises to help that instead of running back to one of them.

Also I'm still unsure what triggers the "smoky haze" though. Does it happen when a spy whose in disguise start to cloak? Is it something that happens during the cloaking process?