|
|
TonyElTigre 05-09-2008, 12:17 PM What is the point of the superior loot if there is no where else to progress and use it?
If thats your argument whats the point in raiding at all? You will always hit a wall with no real content behind it.
Its the exact same thing but you are upset that less "elite" players will get to see the same things as you.
AdreNaLiNe 05-09-2008, 12:26 PM I pay to play the game Adren, casually or otherwise. Raiders are not special, and frankly they're probably a minority.
That's not the point though, Fool. By making this change, it takes away overall content from the game (by not having REAL, distinct, 10 man instances). You just know they'll say "Hey, this has a 10 man version too!" rather than create another 10 man like ZA. And honestly, you wouldn't be seeing the same content, unless you count "looking at the interior of an instance" as "seeing raid content."
It's the difference between Kael in TK versus Kael in Magister's terrace.
I'm absolutely fine with them having 25 man only raids Adren, all I'm saying is I'd like to eventually be able to see them too. I see no reason why they can't change the former top tier 25 man raids into 10 mans when they release new 25 man content. SSC, TK, etc. could all be turned into 10 mans, gives casual gamers some hope of progressing, seeing more content, etc... while allowing top raiding guilds their large penises.
JustinCase 05-09-2008, 12:33 PM fool, I love you
AdreNaLiNe 05-09-2008, 12:43 PM I'm absolutely fine with them having 25 man only raids Adren, all I'm saying is I'd like to eventually be able to see them too. I see no reason why they can't change the former top tier 25 man raids into 10 mans when they release new 25 man content. SSC, TK, etc. could all be turned into 10 mans, gives casual gamers some hope of progressing, seeing more content, etc... while allowing top raiding guilds their large penises.
Wait, I thought this was for the NEW content, and not the old content? I can care less about the old content being 10 man. I just prefer Blizz to keep creating both 5s, 10s, and 25s, and not use a 10 man version of a 25 man future raid instance as a "we did create a 10 man! See!" type of deal.
I didn't read the article, thought IcZer summed it up.
Falhawk 05-09-2008, 01:04 PM I'm absolutely fine with them having 25 man only raids Adren, all I'm saying is I'd like to eventually be able to see them too. I see no reason why they can't change the former top tier 25 man raids into 10 mans when they release new 25 man content. SSC, TK, etc. could all be turned into 10 mans, gives casual gamers some hope of progressing, seeing more content, etc... while allowing top raiding guilds their large penises.
that's not what they are doing
Feannag 05-09-2008, 01:13 PM Read the whole thing.
- Little concerned about the editors talking about some of the zones being "littered with towns". I was under the impression Northrend is a very primal, feral and dangerously untamed land. A land where the "towns" were nothing more than slapped together and improvised ramparts and fortications designed to keep the evils of Northrend out. LIke everyone got there and were immediately under attack by the local evils and had to make something really fast. Where you had an air that people who leave the settlements never come back alive and there's not much in the way of civilization.
- I like the new end-game raid change. I was less antsy over loot and simply more interested in experiencing the content. Hardcore raiders will whine, but what can you do? My guess is the 10-man and 25-man loot will be identical in terms of stats and procs/equips but simply scaled for purple for 25 and blue for 10. Much like they did with the blue battlegear and the S1 sets.
- I'm saying it now, I don't think siege warfare in PvP will be available on release. They said that with the BGs back in closed beta/stress test/open beta and it took more than a year to deliver. I don't think it'll be ready in time.
- Sounds like they're doing more of the smaller quest lines from old, which I find appealing. Those who played Alliance a lot should be aware of the Worgen's origins and how they were somehow tied to Elune. Always wanted to see how that panned out.
- It sounds like this will be the last WoW expansion though, judging from the reactions of content and what not. Lich King will be on top for probably two years from release when Blizz will most likely launch WoW2 with a new engine, new graphics, new lands, new classes, and new everything to keep up with the present MMO market.
Snaps 05-09-2008, 01:34 PM Do console games come out and pussify themselves because people can't beat them?
Why should they make a game easier because some people cannot complete it?
Yes, we both pay our $15 a month, and guess what, we still play the same game. No one is stopping you from going to BT, Hyjal or even Sunwell. It's not like Blizzard is stopping you from attempting large group efforts. You just don't want to put in the effort to achieve it.
Should you be able to see the big blue dragon of dildo wielding? Sure, why not.
Should you actually be able to kill said dragon and shaft yourself into ecstasy? No, because that fucking dragon would eat your gimp ass solo or in samll numbers.
If I have a machine gun and I see 3 people coming for me, should I pull out my pistol to make it "more fair for smaller people to kill me"? Fuck no.
...the kicker of all arguements though is "I don't have time to waste playing a part time job". And the answer to that is BULLSHIT.
The only difference between me & you is that while you waste time in Kara, I waste time in Sunwell. And god forbid someone plays a computer game tues-thurs, because those are just the banging social nights. When you don't blow ass you don't spend 3 hours on Najentus crying that you can see Illidan.
You playing a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE RPG. If you want to be Mr. Joe Cool I can kill everything Solo go play fucking Morowind or some other non-mmo.
THAT IS THE POINT OF THIS GAME -- EM EM OH
[meph]DarkDonut 05-09-2008, 01:37 PM I'm currently in a highend raiding guild and we're working on Felmyst, and to be honest, I'd rather be able to obtain the highest loot in the game through a 10 person raid, much like u can get the highest pvp gear in the game in a team of as little as 2 players. It's much simpler to organize, schedule, and attracts more people to the game that don't have as much time to play these types of games as others do. I raided all of Naxx before TBC and now almost all of the TBC content sans felmyst, Etwins, muru, and I feel like it would just be more fun and less stressful/job-like.
That's what it does turn into, a job. And it burns people out and makes them not want to play as much. Most of the subscribers to this game are "casual" in the fact that they mostly dont do endgame 25 man raids. The percentage of people in these engame zones is vastly outweighed by the percentage in places like karazhan, ZA, and heroic 5 mans. It makes no sense not to at least cater the content towards them, while keeping the difficulty of the endgame stuff at a level that only skilled and/or people who took the time to decently gear themselves in earlier zones/instances, can complete or attempt. Depending on the difference in gear in the xpac between the 10 and 25 version of the dungeons, I may opt to just do the 10 mans and have more fun.
Do console games come out and pussify themselves because people can't beat them?
Why should they make a game easier because some people cannot complete it?
Yes, we both pay our $15 a month, and guess what, we still play the same game. No one is stopping you from going to BT, Hyjal or even Sunwell. It's not like Blizzard is stopping you from attempting large group efforts. You just don't want to put in the effort to achieve it.
Should you be able to see the big blue dragon of dildo wielding? Sure, why not.
Should you actually be able to kill said dragon and shaft yourself into ecstasy? No, because that fucking dragon would eat your gimp ass solo or in samll numbers.
If I have a machine gun and I see 3 people coming for me, should I pull out my pistol to make it "more fair for smaller people to kill me"? Fuck no.
...the kicker of all arguements though is "I don't have time to waste playing a part time job". And the answer to that is BULLSHIT.
The only difference between me & you is that while you waste time in Kara, I waste time in Sunwell. And god forbid someone plays a computer game tues-thurs, because those are just the banging social nights. When you don't blow ass you don't spend 3 hours on Najentus crying that you can see Illidan.
You playing a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE RPG. If you want to be Mr. Joe Cool I can kill everything Solo go play fucking Morowind or some other non-mmo.
THAT IS THE POINT OF THIS GAME -- EM EM OH
Then why aren't you bitching about lack of 40 man raids?
greydog 05-09-2008, 02:00 PM lol... the topic just may never die.
i remember beta or alpha back in '05 or whatever it was when you could only level to 30 and raid information slowly started coming out. coming from a history of 'stab-me-in-the-eye-with-a-dull-dick-we-are-hardcore' of everquest raiding guilds - a few of as screamed, whine, kicked, cried all over the beta forums about 40man raids being the the dumbest direction to go and they should go with 20 or smaller for raids if they want big success (read $$$$) with wow. of course it was a minority opinion and they listened to the awesomest cool 'we-downed-veeshan-without-pants' raiders and kept the 40.
this is just a glorified i-told-you-so post.
slick spic 05-09-2008, 02:20 PM the only problem i see w/ making 10 mans out of all the raid dungeons is that they will have to dumb things down simply because of numbers.
i think muru is one of the most insane fights, i like doing it, it keeps everyone on their toes, but there is so much going on that you really do need all 25 ppl doing their jobs and paying attention.
i'm obviously no game developer, but i can't see any good way to dumb that fight down enough for a 10 man raid. there's just too much going on. any change you could make that would make it a possible fight for 10 mans would change the fight so much i don't think you could even call it muru any more.
a fight like kalecgos, where you have ppl going up and down, needing decursers, enough healers for raid dmg + tank healers, you can't make that a 10 man fight w/o taking so much out of it
if you have 25 man fights that are interesting/complex enough for 25 mans, then there is too much going on to make it a possible 10 man fight. so why not just keep making separate instances? i don't care if everyone in the world saw all the content, it's one of the reasons i raid and i think ppl's money should entitle them to experience the game. i just think the need to make fights that will work in 10 AND 25 mans will dumb down the fights to a point where it's not as fun
My money is more important than yours
Falhawk 05-09-2008, 02:27 PM Do console games come out and pussify themselves because people can't beat them?
Why should they make a game easier because some people cannot complete it?
Yes, we both pay our $15 a month, and guess what, we still play the same game. No one is stopping you from going to BT, Hyjal or even Sunwell. It's not like Blizzard is stopping you from attempting large group efforts. You just don't want to put in the effort to achieve it.
Should you be able to see the big blue dragon of dildo wielding? Sure, why not.
Should you actually be able to kill said dragon and shaft yourself into ecstasy? No, because that fucking dragon would eat your gimp ass solo or in samll numbers.
If I have a machine gun and I see 3 people coming for me, should I pull out my pistol to make it "more fair for smaller people to kill me"? Fuck no.
...the kicker of all arguements though is "I don't have time to waste playing a part time job". And the answer to that is BULLSHIT.
The only difference between me & you is that while you waste time in Kara, I waste time in Sunwell. And god forbid someone plays a computer game tues-thurs, because those are just the banging social nights. When you don't blow ass you don't spend 3 hours on Najentus crying that you can see Illidan.
You playing a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE RPG. If you want to be Mr. Joe Cool I can kill everything Solo go play fucking Morowind or some other non-mmo.
THAT IS THE POINT OF THIS GAME -- EM EM OH
so you must hate that there are heroic dungeons
Snaps 05-09-2008, 03:27 PM Heroics were added to help bridge the gap between 5man & 10 man. The point of doing all the 10 mans is so you can do 25.
If I am going to be able to access the same content in shitty gear with shitty players, what motivation do I have to do the same content over as 25 man? There is no point. Not like me getting the nicer loot from the 25 man is going to help me progress into.
What pisses me off is that I am going to hit 80 and have nothing to look forward to because I saw it all while leveling & gearing myself up to be able to raid ....and have no reward.
Oh hey, I get to see the same zone i have been grinding in for the past 3 levels. Whoooo!
If you are a casual, shouldn't you be happy raiding Kara? I mean, you are level 70 and doing a level 70 dungeon. What more do you want? Oh you want to hunt in a level 70 dungeons that are harder? WELL THEN GROW SOME BALLS AND LEARN TO KILL IT YOU FUCKING PUSSIES. Not just "oh lets make this Kara 2.0 with different character models"
If you are a casual but think you are such a billy badass at your class, you should be able to find people who are equally skilled and accomplish shit. It's the people who think they are joe cool that are running around in S1 gear or some Kara epics that complain that shit is too tough. Maybe because you are just not that hawt.
Falhawk 05-09-2008, 03:35 PM Heroics were added to help bridge the gap between 5man & 10 man. The point of doing all the 10 mans is so you can do 25.
If I am going to be able to access the same content in shitty gear with shitty players, what motivation do I have to do the same content over as 25 man? There is no point. Not like me getting the nicer loot from the 25 man is going to help me progress into.
What pisses me off is that I am going to hit 80 and have nothing to look forward to because I saw it all while leveling & gearing myself up to be able to raid ....and have no reward.
Oh hey, I get to see the same zone i have been grinding in for the past 3 levels. Whoooo!
If you are a casual, shouldn't you be happy raiding Kara? I mean, you are level 70 and doing a level 70 dungeon. What more do you want? Oh you want to hunt in a level 70 dungeons that are harder? WELL THEN GROW SOME BALLS AND LEARN TO KILL IT YOU FUCKING PUSSIES. Not just "oh lets make this Kara 2.0 with different character models"
If you are a casual but think you are such a billy badass at your class, you should be able to find people who are equally skilled and accomplish shit. It's the people who think they are joe cool that are running around in S1 gear or some Kara epics that complain that shit is too tough. Maybe because you are just not that hawt.
I don't get that you'll have no progresssion with loot.
don't do the 10 man's at all
just do the 25 man versions. There will be a progression, they've said that.
Or you could start with the 10's get their gear, and then start on the 25's which will have a much different dynamic and the next tier of gear
or just do the 10 man's and don't get the best gear
what's the problem
Falhawk 05-09-2008, 03:37 PM What pisses me off is that I am going to hit 80 and have nothing to look forward to because I saw it all while leveling & gearing myself up to be able to raid ....and have no reward.
uh
nowhere did they say that these raids would be part of the levelling progression.
Is kara part of levelling progression now?
Is ZA?
why then would you think that the new raids will be?
Are you thinking that they won't have 5man's that are tuned to be part of the levelling progression from 70-80?
Equality 05-09-2008, 03:39 PM That's not the point though, Fool. By making this change, it takes away overall content from the game (by not having REAL, distinct, 10 man instances). You just know they'll say "Hey, this has a 10 man version too!" rather than create another 10 man like ZA. And honestly, you wouldn't be seeing the same content, unless you count "looking at the interior of an instance" as "seeing raid content."
It's the difference between Kael in TK versus Kael in Magister's terrace.
Or it allows for more raid dungeons overall which leads to no change at all in the amount of content one can do. From the sounds of it, there are going to be quite a few raid dungeons. I think its a great idea, it allows everyone a chance to experience content that we all pay for. Sorry hardcore raiders but you shouldn't be catered to because you spend more time than the other person in the game. The loot will be different and the strats for the fights themselves will be different most of the time. Think of the 4 horsemen for example, i expect the 25 man version to vastly different from the 10 man. They also stated that the 10 man version may open later than the 25 so you can still have all your bragging rights to make your epeen huge.
HaPpY 05-09-2008, 03:39 PM What is the point of the superior loot if there is no where else to progress and use it?
tell that to the diablo faggots. their mind is stuck in a modified underpants gnome loop:
step1: get loot
step2: ???
step3: goto step1
its safe to say wow has its fair share of this mindset.
AdreNaLiNe 05-09-2008, 03:42 PM Or it allows for more raid dungeons overall which leads to no change at all in the amount of content one can do. From the sounds of it, there are going to be quite a few raid dungeons. I think its a great idea, it allows everyone a chance to experience content that we all pay for. Sorry hardcore raiders but you shouldn't be catered to because you spend more time than the other person in the game. The loot will be different and the strats for the fights themselves will be different most of the time. Think of the 4 horsemen for example, i expect the 25 man version to vastly different from the 10 man. They also stated that the 10 man version may open later than the 25 so you can still have all your bragging rights to make your epeen huge.
You know where I stand when it comes to raiding. I don't cry because I'm hardcore, and I don't cry because I'm not hardcore. I'm concerned with overall content put out like ZA and Karazhan.
If they still keep making solid instances, I'm all for this idea. But don't try to sell me with 10 man BT and calling it a real instance. Takes away from the overall of the game without the karazhans and ZAs of the world, or even the mags/gruuls.
|
|