new news about raids in wotlk

How about special loot for people who put in 30 hours a week? Or megazords for people who complete 4 month long quests that require 50 man raids? We could also get the level cap extended to 100 so long as you're able to beat some difficult timed 25 man trials. Sure that might not be cool with most people but the hardcore minority get their dicks hard.

\8==========D/

I can see where this would be a bummer for the 25 folks. On your offdays, instead of running Kara and ZA, you'll be running the same dungeons you're already doing in 25. Also, I think it would be a good idea for them to reinforce the premiere status of 25 buy opening those raids maybe a month earlier than the 10 version or some such.

But for those of us in small guilds that can only do 10, this is very nice. :)

i think its a pretty good idea overall

it wont stop me from 25manning because i want my char to have the best gear he can get, but if we're short people or whatever, a healthy 10-man is always fun

I'm glad for this change. I don't have the time to do the 25 content, but would like to see it. Our guild is small but can field 10 mans.

I think this is a good thing.

Seems to be a whole lot of crying from people who were not skilled enough or had the social skills to get into a good guild.

I will be the first to admit that us hardcores get butt hurt when they make it ez-mode for scrubs to do the same content as us, but then you have to take a step back and realize you are still always going to be 1 step ahead of them.

While I am clearing Sunwell, the scrubs are wiping to Hyjal trash. Before I had some desire to keep going because there were places I had not seen. Now it will just be "why should I put the effort to do a 25 man when I can just do the 10?"


What is the point of the superior loot if there is no where else to progress and use it?

So some casual can say he raids the same instance as us? Retarded. Go learn teamwork and strategy and come kill the bosses like the big boys.

Just because it's a 10 man doesn't make it easy though. There are plenty of small casual guilds who can't clear ZA

I don't know why a lot of you assume you have to put in 6 hours a night 6 days a week to see the high end content. They just use it as an excuse to be bad

my only problem

do we get bound to an instance if we clear it in 25's

so we can't run it in 10's?

I like knowing the people I play with. That gets hard to do when you start pushing a mere 25 people for a raid. Then, even if you get to know 25 people, if one person can't make it you're screwed. So you recruit more to cover. Soon your "raid" guild has several teams, hundreds of people and you don't know most of them. People loot and leave, ebay, etc...

I'd like to be able to experience the same game as everyone else, but I frankly don't have the desire to spend my entire time in the game farming materials, min/maxing, etc. merely to kill one more boss that we've been working on for a few weeks. That's not appealing to me. I don't care about bragging rights, I don't care about this magical curve that I'm somehow worse of a player for being behind.

I'm not terrible at WoW, I'd say I'm pretty good. I learn my class, I'm pretty head's up, etc... So I fail to see how it hurts you, a hardcore wow raider, to allow me a chance to see the same content that you beat 12 months ago. Are you still bragging about VC clears? No, so shut up if I'd like to be able to casually run some later stuff.

While I see your arguments, I think this is a bad move. One of the good points I thought mentioned in this thread is the "I pay for this game, I want to see it too."

In truth, there is a reason for 25 man content and one for 10. The idea behind 25s is that it takes quite a bit more effort to organize a Hyjal run than a Karazhan run. I've done both, and the 25 is quite more the burden.

In reality, it's a good way for Blizz to save some money. Why develop new 10 man content when you can take the same content from 25s and simply turn it into 10s? So, are you really getting more for your money? Or less?

I like knowing the people I play with. That gets hard to do when you start pushing a mere 25 people for a raid. Then, even if you get to know 25 people, if one person can't make it you're screwed. So you recruit more to cover. Soon your "raid" guild has several teams, hundreds of people and you don't know most of them. People loot and leave, ebay, etc...

I'd like to be able to experience the same game as everyone else, but I frankly don't have the desire to spend my entire time in the game farming materials, min/maxing, etc. merely to kill one more boss that we've been working on for a few weeks. That's not appealing to me. I don't care about bragging rights, I don't care about this magical curve that I'm somehow worse of a player for being behind.

I'm not terrible at WoW, I'd say I'm pretty good. I learn my class, I'm pretty head's up, etc... So I fail to see how it hurts you, a hardcore wow raider, to allow me a chance to see the same content that you beat 12 months ago. Are you still bragging about VC clears? No, so shut up if I'd like to be able to casually run some later stuff.

At one point or another, I was really tempted to just recruit in the Trade channel to fill classes. Then as we went along, as frustrating as it was, more and more TW'ers signed up.

While I can't say I hang out with everyone in the guild IRL, I do feel like I "know most of my guildmates" and do 25s with them.

If you think about it, your argument doesn't really fly, Fool.

You pay 15 bucks a month, same as me. But you pay for a different reason. Some people pay to see end game content, to raid in 25 mans. Others pay to play the game casually (you).

So, why should your 15 bucks entitle you to see 25s?

That's not to say I disagree with what you're saying entirely. But when I first started playing, I had no desire to see the 25 man content. I just wanted to do some PvP and do some Karazhan. As that changed, I changed the structure and format of the guild to accomodate it. Some content are meant to be more "epic" than others. The fact that you pay 15 bucks a month allows you to see this content, assuming you join a group. Seeing a dumbed down 10 man isn't "epic" by any means, and they could have spent time to create a truly nice 10 man raid instance. Instead, they're getting away with it cheap. Remove one trash here. Remove one boss ability there. Remove a phase. It's like after seeing Kael'thas in TK, Heroic MGT is such a ripoff.

neat idea, i think its an overall good change.

that TW horde guild is a perfect example that you can take 25 friends and be successful at end game raiding without massive man hours

the whole concept of everyone being able to see everything in the game regardless of skill just doesn't make sense to me

Come to think of it, the only objection I truly have to this whole thing would be the fact that I loved doing Kara and ZA in the beginning. Imagine how lame it would be to do SSC 25, then SSC 10 on off nights? It's really taking content away from us casual 25 man raiding guilds. The hardcore guilds don't give a shit, they spend 6 nights a week in the 25s to clear it first. We still enjoy doing Kara and ZA.

Well it will keep blizzard from having to nerf 25 mans to make them available to casual guilds.

I pay to play the game Adren, casually or otherwise. Raiders are not special, and frankly they're probably a minority.

hmm.. so is everyone assuming that the 10 man version is going to be the exact same bosses with lower HP and 1 or 2 less abilities? I would hope that the 10 man version has more differences then the difference between a normal and heroic instance.

Seems to be a whole lot of crying from people who were not skilled enough or had the social skills to get into a good guild.

rofl... I honestly can say that I don't want your "social skills" that would get me into a part time job raiding guild in WOW.

I agree with my brother on this one.

10 players is a great wholesome size for a team game. You get bigger than that and it starts getting less personal and imo less fun. It's difficult to field 25 people.

Think about it... It mus really suck to have a skilled group of 15 or so friends that all want to play, but golly gee, you'll never get to the later levels not based on skill, but simply based on a lack of a large roster. That's kind of gimp.

Other smaller teams want to have a shot too. Why not let them?

Perhaps somebody can tell me how this would hurt the game? Why? Sucks to let the people in skilled smaller teams have some fun and gear too?

Who cares? Just let everyone play. It's a game.

Sounds to me like a "I want to be the only one with the golden dildo" kind of thing...

You know the 25-man content can still be different. Just like Heroic mobs have abilities that regular 5-man mobs don't, the 25-man bosses can still have a gear check plasma shitstorm undispellable DoT that ticks for 6k and makes the fight "epic."