How does wow arena compare to something like dota?

Honestly, i consider wow pvp extremely balanced. Folks need to give blizz credit.

Fucking laughable. The number of druids in 2v2 certainly represents a well balanced and thought out system, right?

WoW PvP is not about balance or skill. It's about strategy, class composition and gear. Individual player skill is a factor, but not the main one. Post 1700, from my limited experience, most people aren't making stupid mistakes, and wins/losses are rarely the result of individual player skill but as someone stated earlier lucky crit/percentages falling your way and class composition. If you want skill based PvP go play Counterstrike.

And yeah, if you're in the 1300s you suck. That's ok, I'm not very good at arena either, my highest rating ever being 1851 for 1 week in s2. Just acknowledge that you are currently terrible and take steps to improve your game. With decent gear (300+ resilience) you should be able to ride at 1500 with pretty much any combo.

Fucking laughable. The number of druids in 2v2 certainly represents a well balanced and thought out system, right?

You'd sound a lot smarter if you took the time to read (& understand) what you reply to.

Arena isnt "unbalanced."

The fucking game's pvp isnt "balanced" depending on whether you can combine 2 classes and beat a lot of other comboes, just like it isnt "balanced" around dueling.

Dueling isnt a measure of shit, either.

It's a rock-paper-scissors problem... not one of "balance." Balance fails when in 5v5... you have no more pallies.



In other words, the fact that arena 2v2 and 3v3 is so annoyingly rock-paper-scissors doesnt mean it's lacking balance. It means arena just gets boring. The question of balance is moreso about whether classes can at least PARTICIPATE in the rock-paper-scissors fiesta. Some classes have strengths and weaknesses that dont shine in duels or 2v2.

Big deal.

I'm not worried about sounding smart and don't have anything to prove. I did want to express my opinion though.

And for me, the issues with 2v2 were a big deal. This is where I did a majority of arena. I found it very difficult to get the same 5 people on at the same time and get everybody into arena (and yes I know there were plenty of other options here but I wanted to stick to playing with friends, not random people for the sake of competition). In any case, Blizzard chose to implement 2v2 and 3v3, and their responses to the imbalance present there was basically "if you don't like it, play 5v5 or roll one of the classes that excels in 2v2." I don't care for that sort of response at all. There were many changes that could've been made to balance things out in 2v2 and 3v3 and they just didn't give a fuck or didn't want to spend the time making them. Cyclone for example. Put a god damn 10 second timer on it, or make it dispellable, or allow you to be healed through it. Having the best CC in the game with no cooldown and not being able to dispel or heal through it is just fucking stupid and poor design. Druids had enough tools at their disposal as it is.

I also often hear that PvP is balanced around group vs group, 5v5. Why? This may have served some purpose back in the day before BGs when 5-man groups actually rolled around and engaged in world PvP but these days why balance PvP around 5-man groups? AV is a 40 man clusterfuck, AB and EotS are 15 man raid groups and even WSG is 10, not 5. Even the upcoming arena tournament is based around 3v3. So why balance things around 5v5?

Also, I don't agree with you about simply being able to participate. What good is participating if you are consistently outmatched? I could "participate" in a porno movie by being a giz mopper, but I'd much rather be the guy banging the hot blonde, you smell me?

it really does come down to a class balance deciding the game, instead of the player skill, unless it's a mirror match.

This.

Anything but 5v5 is laughable right now once you get into higher ratings. 5v5 you have a bit more flexibility with a composition because you can put 2-3 "target" classes in a single comp so dps splitting to lock targets down becomes a bit more common, but 2s and 3s once you get to the higher ratings, it's very formulaic and redundant.

I run Warrior / Shaman for 2v2...one week we play a bunch of drain teams or warrior/druid teams and we win easily, next week we play a bunch of double dps teams and we split games.

Really does come down to luck of the draw (a lot of the time) in the higher ratings for 2 out of the 3 arena brackets, because once you get to a certain level, the skill evens out. As Swamp Kitten said, most people aren't fucking up massively in those brackets, so it comes down to being able to follow a formula for the comp you're playing and then just hoping you crit more than they do. I'm glad more people are starting to notice this.

Also I think TseTse hit it right on.

Part of the "fun" of WoW's arena system is the fact that you need to run a sensible combo with classes that have synergy with each other to achieve high ratings. This inherently creates a rock paper scissors situation. Some people don't mind that, some people (like myself) really fucking hate it. I don't think it's necessarily unbalanced, but as I said above, certain combos just don't beat other combos when the skill level evens out.

I think this is just another area where the Armory has been detrimental to diversity in this game. Armory has only really done one thing: facilitate copycatting. Certainly copycatting will happen eventually regardless (everyone started copying my bounty hunter in SWG), but not to the extent that it occurs in WoW. People just go check out BG9 teams, find someone of their class, steal their spec, steal their compositions, steal their gemming/enchanting, and go to town.

I miss when there was still some shred of mystery around your spec...even if cookie cutter specs would still exist, you'd see a lot less people doing well by armorying and reading the forums and more people doing well by learning shit on their own.

Honestly, i consider wow pvp extremely balanced. Folks need to give blizz credit.

However, i think what you are talking about is the rock-paper-scissors aspect of 2v2 and 3v3... and how some classes get ass raped more than others at these brackets (i.e. pally).

I dont consider that a lack of balance in arena. Just a limit to 2v2 and 3v3's enjoyability.

I consider that an expression of the strengths and limits of some classes. Some classes are more useful in smaller encounters, others in bigger encounters (although pally could use love in both).

That said... i also believe folks often just havent figured out how to play counters and that the player base has leaned towards simpler and more obvious setups (i.e. druid & whatever).

i think we see the same thing, and just call it something else. in bgs, wow pvp is very well balanced. there isn't a specific class thats ridiculously over powered in bgs. the smaller bracket arena match ups is where this "balance" fails. obviously blizz isn't going to change class mechanics based on this little slice of wow, but it sucks none the less.

the real reason i stopped playing is because pvp in wow is fucking weak, boring, and lifeless. there are SO MANY things they could change/add to make it interesting and they've failed...miserably. i used to enjoy playing in bgs, but after years of the same fucking thing, i got tired of it. pvp is a dead part of the game.

the only thing i can think is that there is no player base requesting this stuff. blizz is making $ hand over fist; i bet they have the resources to make the changes. instead they focus on pve content and pushing out the next expansion. these things aren't for me, so i'm out. i'm playing tf2 and loving it.

My biggest complaint is that I'm not liking how well melee is scaling.

need tampon? :wave:

DOMINATING :(

dota is a dumbed down wow-arena sped up x 10 to emphasize apm skill, reaction, and teamwork

for those that never played dota, if SC is the #1 game played pro internationally, dota is #2

? dota is an esport?

fufu,
want to dota?
aim: hmdk44

If you are full S3, ANY comp in 2v2 that cant get over at least 1850...you dont play perfect, you dont even understand what a rock paper sissors game really about. Anything under the 2200's people make so many mistakes its pathetic.

The main difference is the complete absence of a hit euro-dance song for WOW's Arena.