Patch 2.4.2 notes

Such as?

Perhaps you could post your reasons as to why mages are great then for all of our viewing entertainment? Yes, we know they can make water...

Also happy, I found that I usually went 50/50 with most mages on my Shaman. Grounding totem helps a ton and so does being able to heal yourself. You can also purge the mage of all their armor and buffs. I found that if I got the jump on a mage I could drop him pretty damn quick. Earth shock does wonders as well.
Mages do more damage than warlocks
Mages are generally harder to kill than warlocks

I'm not going to spend even 5 minutes typing out a post about why you're wrong.

no actually mages are pretty gimped... they only work well in very specific arena comps. like rmp for 3v3 (never seen a mage work well not in rmp). rogue mage in 2v2 works ok too... but thats pretty much it.

and they lose out in rock paper scissors more than other classes....

mages owned by:
rogues (any spec)
hunters (any spec)
warlocks (any spec)
priests (shadow)
druids (any spec)

mages own:
warrior
shammy
paladin

the difference is warriors and shams have more of a chance vs mages than mages do vs warlocks and huntards. paladins are their only real bitch.

Warriors depend entirely on their gear/health. A good warrior will easily survive even the largest, longest casted crits, and if they get off a spell reflect or two I'll wind up killing myself.

Shaman own mages pretty easily so long as they know what they're doing. Earth shock and Frost shock for the win.

Paladins can be tough if they have all their cooldowns. Trying to burn through 15k health 3 times is not an easy fight for a mage.

Mages do more damage than warlocks
Mages are generally harder to kill than warlocks

This post is summarized best with what the fuck?

How do mages not to more (effective) damage in PVP than warlocks? Dots on 5 targets doesn't mean shit, stop looking at damage meters.

Warlocks are squishier to melee than a mage, and melee are the dominant force in arenas. Stop looking at 2v2 with 2 casters trying to kill a warlock with full HoTs :shrug:

How do mages not to more (effective) damage in PVP than warlocks? Dots on 5 targets doesn't mean shit, stop looking at damage meters.

Warlocks are squishier to melee than a mage, and melee are the dominant force in arenas. Stop looking at 2v2 with 2 casters trying to kill a warlock with full HoTs :shrug:

I am confused by this, ignoring damage meters and calling dots ineffective damage to prove that mages do more damage. The dots force healers to cleanse and heal people constantly with dots on them which opens up for focus target kills that the lock can also help with.

No, dots bounce around PoM, give warriors rage, etc. etc. If we're talking 3v3, then paladins are already trash, so their lack of HoT or AE heal doesn't matter (they'll be feared/spell-locked anyways)

Shatter Combos and Frostbolts are much more effective damage. Heck, a mage being focused and just throwing instant casts can pretty much do the same single-target DPS as a warlock, but if you leave them alone they do 5x the damage in bursts, which is what gets niggas killed. The combination of counterspell and burst damage is what counts.

Yes except we're not talking exclusively about 2v2 and 3v3 Arena Calder. We're talking about all-around, PvP, PvE, Arena of all sorts, etc...

Yea well I don't give a shit about your PVE. I'm talking about PVP

Mages do more damage than warlocks
Mages are generally harder to kill than warlocks

I'm not going to spend even 5 minutes typing out a post about why you're wrong.

Are you kidding me?

Warlocks do a ton of damage, they just do it over time. In PvP a sl/sl lock is one of the harder caster targets to bring down outside a Disc. Priest. The felhunter is typically a pain in the ass to take out as well, since it resists so much magic damage. It's almost unfair once warlocks get their PvP trinket, and they can break out of stuns ever 2 mins. They also have the benefit of not being completely useless once they run out of mana, as if their healer is up they can lifetap and be healed for a fresh start. I used to have a warlock, it was insane in PvE, general PvP, and decent in arena (I didn't have the best PvP gear, it got considerably easier once I had about 300+ resilience).

Frost mages have better burst damage at times, but it's not even that effective once you start meeting people with 300+ resil and 10K+ health.

Mages basically have to hit everything at just the right time, get everything perfect in their timing and positioning to even be competitive with warlocks. We're the squishiest cloth class, and our escape options consist of blink. Iceblock is just a defensive mechanism, one which renders our damage useless.

Sounds to me like you're just bad at the game :shrug:

i could show you some great mage pvp videos, but i could show you even better ones for almost any other class

Are you crying about 1v1?

Sure it's possible to do *ok* as a mage when you're playing shitty people. Point is Calder that mages are cannon fodder for pretty much any class where gear disparity is not an issue.

What more is there to nerf on rogues? We've been nerfed to one spec already!
Pretty much every class is pigeonholed into 1-2 specs right now for arenas...Rogue is actually a bit more flexible than some classes.

And good, nerf druids.

I can see all sorts of interesting combos working with a hunter now

Such as?

Perhaps you could post your reasons as to why mages are great then for all of our viewing entertainment? Yes, we know they can make water...

Also happy, I found that I usually went 50/50 with most mages on my Shaman. Grounding totem helps a ton and so does being able to heal yourself. You can also purge the mage of all their armor and buffs. I found that if I got the jump on a mage I could drop him pretty damn quick. Earth shock does wonders as well.

i learned to play shams at a distance on my mage and anticipate grounding totems and track the cooldown. its much trickier than playing as a lock vs a mage though.

the key problem with mages in pvp is lack of instants... i'd imagine in wotk they add some instants... such as a low damage, low duration, snare for frost (i cast rank1 fb more than anything)... or maybe more kickback reduction talents.

icy veins is a step in the right direction, it shows blizzard recognizes the problem with mages.

Are you crying about 1v1?

they dont really shine in 2v2 or 3v3 either and are mostly cc bots in 5v5 as opposed to the ZOMGDPS class they are meant to be.

Are you crying about 1v1?

Play a mage and then restate all your previous opinions. In 5's (as a mage) you need to usually CC/Silence 2 targets while at the same time avoiding death and hitting the focus target. The viability of Mages in arena's is entirely dependent on not getting focused. When I'm focused in 3's and 5's my effectiveness goes down to instacast's only and usually prevents me from being able to effectively chain poly.

Whereas warlocks on the other hand are still effective when focused in all of the aforementioned areas.

i learned to play shams at a distance on my mage and anticipate grounding totems and track the cooldown. its much trickier than playing as a lock vs a mage though.

the key problem with mages in pvp is lack of instants... i'd imagine in wotk they add some instants... such as a low damage, low duration, snare for frost (i cast rank1 fb more than anything)... or maybe more kickback reduction talents.

icy veins is a step in the right direction, it shows blizzard recognizes the problem with mages.

Fire has 3 instants, unfortunately they're on a 6s/20s/30s recast timer and one is shared by cone of cold. The real problem just stems from game balance. In PvE Fire/Arcane beats out Ice, but not by much and both trail behind Rogue and Lock DPS. In PvP Ice dominates the mage specs and does ok, but still lacks the survivability of other DPS classes.

It should be a simple game design choice. Survivability should mean less DPS. The hardest class to bring down should deal the least amount of damage and vice versa. Otherwise why play one? So that being the case, the classes easiest to take down should put out insane damage. Mages don't, hence the imbalance.

mages died with resilience, this is old news

Play a mage and then restate all your previous opinions. In 5's (as a mage) you need to usually CC/Silence 2 targets while at the same time avoiding death and hitting the focus target. The viability of Mages in arena's is entirely dependent on not getting focused. When I'm focused in 3's and 5's my effectiveness goes down to instacast's only and usually prevents me from being able to effectively chain poly.

Whereas warlocks on the other hand are still effective when focused in all of the aforementioned areas.
I do play a mage.

You can do as much focused DPS while being targeted as a SL/SL warlock can. Purge warlocks and banish/kill their pet and bam: they are 10x easier to kill than a mage.

What do you think an elemental shaman does when he's trained? INSTANT CASTS! Do you think warlocks can effectively chain fear when being trained?

Welcome to the World of Warcraft! I'm sorry you have such a hard time trying to do 3 tasks at once. Maybe you should try putting the 3 buttons closer together so you have an easier time clicking them.