Dualwield fury warrior, hit rating

Our guild is full of optimizers. It's about doing the most with what little time we have. We don't even bother with Mag. We plan on waiting till the patch hehe. That said, Fathomlord, Hydross, and Morogrim down this week. :)

hrmm, i wonder why DW warrs and rogues have such a different view of hit. The mechanics behind the two are the same right? and so why would missing 15% of white attacks matter less for a warr than a rogue?

from what very little I know of melee classes, rogues dps depends much more on white damage while dw warriors are all about special yellow attacks

Our guild is full of optimizers. It's about doing the most with what little time we have. We don't even bother with Mag. We plan on waiting till the patch hehe. That said, Fathomlord, Hydross, and Morogrim down this week. :)

if the people in your guild don't have the brain's to execute something as simple as a nerfed mag, then those bosses are going to be very difficult

hrmm, i wonder why DW warrs and rogues have such a different view of hit. The mechanics behind the two are the same right? and so why would missing 15% of white attacks matter less for a warr than a rogue?
Rogues have hit-synergy in the form of Combat Potency, Poisons, and Windfury.

Warriors have hit-synergy in the form of Rage and Windfury, but also have crit-synergy in the form of Rage and Flurry, and AP-synergy in the form of Rage.

It's been my experience that rogues can dump energy faster than warriors can dump rage (obviously execute notwithstanding), so something like this (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=35553) which works only on successful offhand swings will create a situation where more hit translates directly into more energy and more damage from specials (in addition to the straight addition in damage from hitting vs missing), whereas once a warrior gets to the point where they have enough rage to do whatever they want, more hit is just the difference between hitting and missing as far as damage.

i haven't played a rogue extensively in a raid so i could be missing something, but that seems to be the major difference.

It's been my experience that rogues can dump energy faster than warriors can dump rage (obviously execute notwithstanding), so something like Combat Potency - Spells - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=35553) which works only on successful offhand swings will create a situation where more hit translates directly into more energy and more damage from specials (in addition to the straight addition in damage from hitting vs missing), whereas once a warrior gets to the point where they have enough rage to do whatever they want, more hit is just the difference between hitting and missing as far as damage.

i haven't played a rogue extensively in a raid so i could be missing something, but that seems to be the major difference.
You can always dump more rage. HS every hit if your tank is Jesus, Cleave if he's not.

Last time I raided as a warrior was back in nax, and I was generating so much rage that I straight up couldn't get rid of it, even spamming HS and cooldown specials with DW/fury. It was pretty fucked. I imagine the high end gear as gotten to that point again.

Last time I raided as a warrior was back in nax, and I was generating so much rage that I straight up couldn't get rid of it, even spamming HS and cooldown specials with DW/fury. It was pretty fucked. I imagine the high end gear as gotten to that point again.They nerfed Rage gen a while back. I haven't played Fury in a long time either, but I'm decently sure that doesn't happen anymore.

if the people in your guild don't have the brain's to execute something as simple as a nerfed mag, then those bosses are going to be very difficult

No, we took all 3 of them down this week already, all on 3 attempts each.

We just prefer the easy route when it comes to Mag.

You can always dump more rage. HS every hit if your tank is Jesus, Cleave if he's not.

As a rage dump, cleave is more threat per damage on a single target than Heroic Strike. Our tanks are pretty good anyway :p

And rage gen was normalized or some crap so it's not that abundant, but as long as you can use BT and WW every cooldown it's no biggie. 65 rage < throw in a HS.

No, we took all 3 of them down this week already, all on 3 attempts each.

We just prefer the easy route when it comes to Mag.

I read it wrong, I thought you were planning on downing them this week

you guys should have zero problems with mag if you can kill those 3 lol

I know they nerfed it, but honestly saying that you can't generate more rage than you're capable of spending is just outright wrong. That doesn't mean they spend their time with a full bar, but just that it isn't ever exactly empty either. They aren't waiting on rage, they're waiting on cooldowns and swing timers. To a lesser extent threat as well, moreso before the talent changes.

As a rage dump, cleave is more threat per damage on a single target than Heroic Strike. Our tanks are pretty good anyway :pEr... no it's not. Cleave has no built in threat component.

I know they nerfed it, but honestly saying that you can't generate more rage than you're capable of spending is just outright wrong. That doesn't mean they spend their time with a full bar, but just that it isn't ever exactly empty either. They aren't waiting on rage, they're waiting on cooldowns and swing timers. To a lesser extent threat as well, moreso before the talent changes.
I'm 95% sure OH rage gen will not outstrip WW + BT + Cleave expense.

No, we took all 3 of them down this week already, all on 3 attempts each.

We just prefer the easy route when it comes to Mag.
Yeah Mag should be a joke for you guys, considering it's simply a retard check, and you already downed hydross which is also a retard check, at least when I did it.

I'm 95% sure OH rage gen will not outstrip WW + BT + Cleave expense.

Er... no it's not. Cleave has no built in threat component.

I'm gonna go with what that Theoryspot nerd posted.

4: Heroic Strike vs. Cleave

Heroic strike and cleave are the two contenders for a rage dump for fury warriors. They both have bonus damage, they both are not on the global cooldown, and they both turn a white attack into a yellow attack. This means that an attack that would of had a 28% chance to miss, 25% to be a glancing blow, and only crit for 2x damage now becomes a yellow attack. It only has the base 8% miss, no glancing and 2.2 crit from impale. They both also have bonus threat.

In an effort to try to lower their threat people have been floating the idea of using cleave instead of heroic strike. This is a matter of confusion due to blizzard listing on heroic strike’s tool tip that it has bonus threat and not on cleave’s. However this far into the game you should know better then to believe something on Blizzard’s tooltips.

Heroic strike adds 176 damage for 196 threat. That is 1.1 threat per bonus damage.
Cleave adds 70 damage for 130 bonus threat. That is 1.8 threat per bonus damage.

Something worth noting however is that if cleave hit two targets the bonus threat is split between the two making it preferable threat wise if you have a second target to hit.

As Natural pointed out to me this is not the entire story.

For example, let's say that "removing glancing blows and reducing chance to miss" increases the expected damage of an attack by 200. This is a completely out of the ballpark example, I'll look at some WWS logs in a second.

This changes your calculation as follows:

Heroic strike adds 176 damage (+200 for hit/glance) for 196 threat. 1.92 damage/threat
Cleave adds 70 damage (+200 for hit/glance) for 130 bonus threat. 2.07 damage/threat

Here, cleave is the victor. If you can calculate the value of these other bonuses (no glance, +hit, +10% crit damage), THEN you can calculate what is better damage per threat.

This means it becomes hard to tell exactly how much threat each one causes without calculating factors from all your gear. It would appear that the better your gear the more in favor of cleave it will be. That being said Heroic Strike is still the better choice as points in improved cleave are a waste of valuable talent points.

Yeah Mag should be a joke for you guys, considering it's simply a retard check, and you already downed hydross which is also a retard check, at least when I did it.

At this point we have so many bosses to work on we haven't gone in to try mag, the loot compared to even killing bosses in ZA seems lacking to take 25 people together for it. I am sure it will be done just to kill time.

At this point we have so many bosses to work on we haven't gone in to try mag, the loot compared to even killing bosses in ZA seems lacking to take 25 people together for it. I am sure it will be done just to kill time.
Yeah that's another thing I was going to say...guilds who can kill a few bosses in SSC and can slap some puggish ZA groups together on off nights really shouldn't even need the gear from mag.

My guild basically killed him for the sake of progression and moved on.

I'm gonna go with what that Theoryspot nerd posted.
I actually didn't know that. Cross-checking with Threat 1.0, that does seem to be the case though. Learn somethin' new. =p