I killed my guild

I was in a casual "raiding" guild, and was trying for weeks to motivate them to raid. It was a free roll guild, so there was no incentive to show up. We got down Gruul, then failed to down a new boss (or raid anything other than Kara) for almost a month.

So I talked to some of the better raiders, and we expressed our condolences, and /gquit after a raid was cancelled yet again.

Since then, 90% of their raiding members have left them (some came with us, most went other ways), and they can't even field a Kara group.

Should I feel bad that I basically killed the raiding hopes of one of the oldest guilds on the server, or is it really their own faults for not being motivated enough to succeed?

75% of guilds out there are in that situation

i think you did them a favor

We're kind of in the same boat at the moment. We really need to pick up more people to fill the ranks.

Though I don't think any of my members are motivated enough to start their own guild. I'd probably end up joining them too.

if you were alliance pve, I could suggest about 8 players who are raid motivated, but because we came from that guild, will have a hard time finding raids unless we pug people.

so you broke up a guild meant to be casual because they wouldn't raid which by nature is NOT casual... :rolleyes:

so you broke up a guild meant to be casual because they wouldn't raid which by nature is NOT casual... :rolleyes:

half wanted to raid, the other half was the definition of casual. They wanted to down VR and Mags, but couldn't be bothered to come prepared and know the strats. Raiding and casual are not at odds...one can raid Kara or Gruuls casually. One cannot raid TK or SSC casually, and they were struggling with that concept.

They believed that it would be possible to motivate people to come to raids with no DKP system, that no one should be forced to spec a certain way, and that showing up to a raid once a month completely unprepared was fine. Which worked for awhile. A 12 growth kill of Gruuls was our finest (sadly) accomplishment.

edit: Do all serious guild leaders refuse to give officer rank to their friends, just because they are their friends?

HIGH FIVE

to be fair, pre bc my guild raided 4 days a week for 3-4 hours, monday-thursday, only needed to showup 3 days.

We were top 25-50 easily worldwide and i would call is very much so casual so you can do both you just need 20 year olds pretty much.

If you aren't on the forefront, like ready and raring to go for sunwell, there isn't a lot of motivation to raid right now. The new season of PVP gear and the new vendor full of badge gear are all pretty damn impressive. They really screwed up the raiding game with this expansion.

They had needlessly long and complicated attunements which they were stubborn about and held on to for way too long, they started with stuff that was overtuned for beginning raids and again were stubborn and didn't fix it for way too long. Now they're finally making it accessable (even easy - look at the 2.4 mag) to get your foot in the door, but at this point the rewards just aren't there.

They don't seem to have realized that 95% of raiders don't raid because they enjoy the raid, they do it because they want the gear that gives them an edge in every other aspect of the game. What they've got now instead of a system where you grind until you have an edge and then you compete and have fun, is a system where you grind so that you can grind the next grind easier.

From a money making perspective I guess it's good because it always keeps your players grinding away for something. It's not however very much fun. You can only really get stoked about killing the same thing so many times, and realistically the only reason you need the best raiding gear is to tackle the end game content. If you run into somebody in PVP gear with half a brain, even if you're in full t6 you're going to get smoked.

So I guess don't feel too bad, blizzard's pisspoor endgame killed your guild, not you. One guy shouldn't be totally shouldering motivating 24 others, they should want to do it because it's fun.

The whole game has gotten way too item based. I remember back in the day where everybody wore blues, was 60, and raided UBRS. If you played on a PVP server like me and ran into some horde in UnGoro you pretty much lived and died on skill (obviously numbers and class vs. class balance played a part). It was much more fun than the current state of affairs, which equates to basically you have a pistol so i'm going to go get a rifle. Now I have a rifle, so you're going to go get a cannon. Eventually everybody was slinging atomic bombs and they had to add a whole new defensive stat just to counter the massive escallation.

Quitting because you found the situation frustrating is fine. Talking other people into doing it too is not so fine. So yes, you should feel bad.

If you aren't on the forefront, like ready and raring to go for sunwell, there isn't a lot of motivation to raid right now. The new season of PVP gear and the new vendor full of badge gear are all pretty damn impressive. They really screwed up the raiding game with this expansion.

They had needlessly long and complicated attunements which they were stubborn about and held on to for way too long, they started with stuff that was overtuned for beginning raids and again were stubborn and didn't fix it for way too long. Now they're finally making it accessable (even easy - look at the 2.4 mag) to get your foot in the door, but at this point the rewards just aren't there.

They don't seem to have realized that 95% of raiders don't raid because they enjoy the raid, they do it because they want the gear that gives them an edge in every other aspect of the game. What they've got now instead of a system where you grind until you have an edge and then you compete and have fun, is a system where you grind so that you can grind the next grind easier.

From a money making perspective I guess it's good because it always keeps your players grinding away for something. It's not however very much fun. You can only really get stoked about killing the same thing so many times, and realistically the only reason you need the best raiding gear is to tackle the end game content. If you run into somebody in PVP gear with half a brain, even if you're in full t6 you're going to get smoked.

So I guess don't feel too bad, blizzard's pisspoor endgame killed your guild, not you. One guy shouldn't be totally shouldering motivating 24 others, they should want to do it because it's fun.

The whole game has gotten way too item based. I remember back in the day where everybody wore blues, was 60, and raided UBRS. If you played on a PVP server like me and ran into some horde in UnGoro you pretty much lived and died on skill (obviously numbers and class vs. class balance played a part). It was much more fun than the current state of affairs, which equates to basically you have a pistol so i'm going to go get a rifle. Now I have a rifle, so you're going to go get a cannon. Eventually everybody was slinging atomic bombs and they had to add a whole new defensive stat just to counter the massive escallation.

this pretty much sums up why I don't care about raiding any longer and why I may just end up cancelling WoW altogether. I have fun chatting with the STK guys and pvping a bit but there is only so much AV I can take at one time. Nothing in PVP is near epic like DAoC was when it was in its prime (Classic/SI period). I'm hoping War will be great but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

If you aren't on the forefront, like ready and raring to go for sunwell, there isn't a lot of motivation to raid right now. The new season of PVP gear and the new vendor full of badge gear are all pretty damn impressive. They really screwed up the raiding game with this expansion.

They had needlessly long and complicated attunements which they were stubborn about and held on to for way too long, they started with stuff that was overtuned for beginning raids and again were stubborn and didn't fix it for way too long. Now they're finally making it accessable (even easy - look at the 2.4 mag) to get your foot in the door, but at this point the rewards just aren't there.

They don't seem to have realized that 95% of raiders don't raid because they enjoy the raid, they do it because they want the gear that gives them an edge in every other aspect of the game. What they've got now instead of a system where you grind until you have an edge and then you compete and have fun, is a system where you grind so that you can grind the next grind easier.

From a money making perspective I guess it's good because it always keeps your players grinding away for something. It's not however very much fun. You can only really get stoked about killing the same thing so many times, and realistically the only reason you need the best raiding gear is to tackle the end game content. If you run into somebody in PVP gear with half a brain, even if you're in full t6 you're going to get smoked.

So I guess don't feel too bad, blizzard's pisspoor endgame killed your guild, not you. One guy shouldn't be totally shouldering motivating 24 others, they should want to do it because it's fun.

The whole game has gotten way too item based. I remember back in the day where everybody wore blues, was 60, and raided UBRS. If you played on a PVP server like me and ran into some horde in UnGoro you pretty much lived and died on skill (obviously numbers and class vs. class balance played a part). It was much more fun than the current state of affairs, which equates to basically you have a pistol so i'm going to go get a rifle. Now I have a rifle, so you're going to go get a cannon. Eventually everybody was slinging atomic bombs and they had to add a whole new defensive stat just to counter the massive escallation.

.

I dunno - our guild just dropped vashj this weekend, we're pretty low-key and laid back in our raiding, and we have fun.

Our guild can basically be defined as casual raiders.

To me, hardcore raiding is about putting a massive amount of time in.

We raid 25s two times a week and 10s the rest of the week. We may learn 1 boss every week, basically. Maybe we might raid three times in the near future, but to me, that's casual raiding. It certainly doesn't mean you shouldn't come prepared with at least knowing the strategies.

Part of the reason we raid is to see the content. Yes, Sunwell will be new content for the hardcore raiders. But hell, most of our guys haven't even seen the inside of SSC yet, so that's still new content. We can badge up and get gear along the way for the higher level stuff, but at the same time, we will still visit the lower end ones to see them - at least that's the plan atm.

To me, hardcore raiding is about putting a massive amount of time in.
I suppose hardcore and casual mean different things to different people. I think of it as a difference in orientation, with hardcore oriented around progression and casual oriented around people.

Casual: "Hey Bob, how's it going?" "Good" "Is Lisa coming to the raid tonight?" "No, she has a project due tomorrow. Hey, do you want these Bonechewer Gauntlets of Strength for your hunter?"

Hardcore: "Killer. Everyone gets one warning. This is your warning. If you die to the flames again or do any other stupid shit tonight you are gone, do you understand? No one has time for this shit. You either watch TV or you raid, and if you don't get your shit together you're gonna be watching a whole lot of TV."

I'm not in a guild because of casual players. You help them out, outlevel them and they expect money and help. The guilds actually worth anything on the server wont take pre 70's, so why waste my time.

However I figure that I'll really have to prove myself being a hunter if I want to get in a decent guild (since none on my server want hunters).

I suppose hardcore and casual mean different things to different people. I think of it as a difference in orientation, with hardcore oriented around progression and casual oriented around people.

Casual: "Hey Bob, how's it going?" "Good" "Is Lisa coming to the raid tonight?" "No, she has a project due tomorrow. Hey, do you want these Bonechewer Gauntlets of Strength for your hunter?"

Hardcore: "Killer. Everyone gets one warning. This is your warning. If you die to the flames again or do any other stupid shit tonight you are gone, do you understand? No one has time for this shit. You either watch TV or you raid, and if you don't get your shit together you're gonna be watching a whole lot of TV."
I don't care how casual you are, you fucking ask Bob "hows it going" when there arent 25 people around. If you are doing 25man raid content, that in itself is "hardcore" and should be treated as such. It is how often you do those 25man raids and what you do outside of those 25man raids that define "casual". IMO.

I don't think that's true. I think you'll find that most "hard core" guilds dick around quite a bit, they just come prepared, know how to play and are ready to sink a lot of time into the game. You just can't spend 40+ hours a week with people and not crack off jokes, it becomes work and people burn out.

I played poker with people while we we're fighting nef. We had a rogue that never died, ever. Our hunters would snap off misdirects on him to try and kill him off (with the standing offer of paying for his repairs) just to make things interesting. Warriors tank with half their armor off to keep healers on their toes for trash.

Stupid shit.

I remember way back in the day before BWL got patched in it wasn't a real golemagg kill unless the two offtanks spun the two core ragers around in circles on the spot, in opposite directions to the tune of that ride spinners song (which would be played over vent) for the whole fight, before the MT got BoP'd with about 15% left so it would turn into a race to see if we could kill him before he mopped the floor with the raid.

It made things fun after you had beaten the fight, I can't imagine being in a guild that didn't play around like that.

I don't think that's true. I think you'll find that most "hard core" guilds dick around quite a bit, they just come prepared, know how to play and are ready to sink a lot of time into the game. You just can't spend 40+ hours a week with people and not crack off jokes, it becomes work and people burn out.

I played poker with people while we we're fighting nef. We had a rogue that never died, ever. Our hunters would snap off misdirects on him to try and kill him off (with the standing offer of paying for his repairs) just to make things interesting. Warriors tank with half their armor off to keep healers on their toes for trash.

Stupid shit.

I remember way back in the day before BWL got patched in it wasn't a real golemagg kill unless the two offtanks spun the two core ragers around in circles on the spot, in opposite directions to the tune of that ride spinners song (which would be played over vent) for the whole fight, before the MT got BoP'd with about 15% left so it would turn into a race to see if we could kill him before he mopped the floor with the raid.

It made things fun after you had beaten the fight, I can't imagine being in a guild that didn't play around like that.
dont get me wrong, im not saying "NO FUN, NO JOKES". it sounds like you guys probably had that shit on farm and sure, thats when its time to really fuck around because everyone should know what they are doing and probably had the gear, etc etc.

when you are casual, with only two raiding days to make progress, the need to get down to business jumps up a bit.