FS: 2100+ 5v5 Duelist Undead Rogue w/ Vengeful Swords & Epic Flier + 70 Warlock!

Who cares if they're getting welfare

I'm rollin in 6 figures

nigga please

The welfare epic label is because you can indeed lose 10 games a week and eventually you will pick up some loot. In PVE if you wipe to a boss night after night you gain nothing (even after the month you mentioned). No one style is harder or easier than the other, and competent players of any gametype will always gear up faster than some random bads.



but even if you lose 10 in a row you wont get any real points unless you win.

you can wipe all you want as long as you pull of the encounter by the end of the raid.

you can be terrible and raid great

The welfare epic label is because you can indeed lose 10 games a week and eventually you will pick up some loot. In PVE if you wipe to a boss night after night you gain nothing (even after the month you mentioned). No one style is harder or easier than the other, and competent players of any gametype will always gear up faster than some random bads.

losing 10 games a week gains you an epic at 1 per like uh... 5-8 weeks

while wiping to a boss night after night does not technically give you anything significant (except perhaps rep from trash), it's far more difficult to fail to kill a boss (with blizzard's nature of nerfing old content and how scripted/easy many pve encounters are) for weeks on end, while people can stay sub 1700 for .. well, i dunno, how long has arena been out?

Can't really blame PvE-style players for resenting the arena a little. For like two years if you wanted high end gear so you could smack people arouind you either raided or you did the pvp thing. If you raided and you wanted anything better than MC trash that was worse than blues, you needed 39 people on the same schedule and the same page to raid with, and there was a reasonable time commitment if not to farm, to learn. If you went the PVP route you had to be good, and you had to spent a shitload of time doing it.

Doesnt mean it was perfect, it's just the way that it was. If you raided you generally outclassed all but the most dedicated pvpers and other raiders, and you could mop the floor with people. I remember before AQ40 came out being in the only Nef killing guild on the server and full tier 2. People ran away from me if they walked past.

Then comes TBC and the arenas, and anybody can get on a team and lose 10 games a week and sooner or later they'll get basically the same gear as everybody else they're fighting against. You don't really need to put in the effort one way or the other to be on the same playing field anymore, so all the people that used to have a huge advantage from doing what they do anyway are naturally pissy about it.

Personally I don't think the whole inevitable reward eventually system is a good idea, and if they really thought it was necessary there should be some kind of second tier consolation armor that doesnt require a rating and is vastly inferior. You should always reward success.

the fact that you can get better weapons from arena for pve is flat out stupid

Basically, the game is a time sink. I had fun tonight, we downed lurker for the first time. Did it on 3 attempts. Sure, it's nothing to be proud of, but it's a start for us.

I don't log on really to PvE or to farm. I log on to PvP, to kill other people and have fun, and to accomplish something with 24 other cool people in my book.

What strikes me different about our guild is how many PvP'ers we have, PvE'ers, and a combination of the above. We literally have a half a raid of PvP'ers and a full one of PvE'ers, so there's always something to do, and somoene cool to do it with. I basically log on to do shit with people, to have fun - not to talk about our cool epics and count them.

To me, this game is simply "for casual fun." Losing is lost in the eyes of Blizzard and their fans.

Maybe it's why we don't really care exactly what type of epics they're called. They simply make the game have a reason to keep chugging along.

This is coming from a paladin. I'm a PvP-er first, PvE-er second.

The fact of the matter is, if you want be a competitive, high rated team (5's specifically), especially on BG9, raiding gear makes or breaks you.

Having full Lightbringer and the mana regen and set bonuses that come with it is huge. Makes arenas that much easier.

ok if you have lower than a 1600 arena rating you get 0 points. will that make you "welfare epics" people stfu? :p:

Basically, the game is a time sink. I had fun tonight, we downed lurker for the first time. Did it on 3 attempts. Sure, it's nothing to be proud of, but it's a start for us.

I don't log on really to PvE or to farm. I log on to PvP, to kill other people and have fun, and to accomplish something with 24 other cool people in my book.

What strikes me different about our guild is how many PvP'ers we have, PvE'ers, and a combination of the above. We literally have a half a raid of PvP'ers and a full one of PvE'ers, so there's always something to do, and somoene cool to do it with. I basically log on to do shit with people, to have fun - not to talk about our cool epics and count them.

To me, this game is simply "for casual fun." Losing is lost in the eyes of Blizzard and their fans.

Maybe it's why we don't really care exactly what type of epics they're called. They simply make the game have a reason to keep chugging along.

if only people would see getting loot as a means to progress in pve... rather than progressing in pve as a means to getting loot. im glad this guild is the former so far and it helps alot in enjoying raiding.

This is coming from a paladin. I'm a PvP-er first, PvE-er second.

The fact of the matter is, if you want be a competitive, high rated team (5's specifically), especially on BG9, raiding gear makes or breaks you.

Having full Lightbringer and the mana regen and set bonuses that come with it is huge. Makes arenas that much easier.

pve gear doesnt work too well in arena though. but yes there are some exceptions... not familiar with lightbringer but the tier4 2piece mage bonus helps a shitload in arena.... (100% reduced pushback on frostbolt, fireball, and something else). i still see top ranked mages with 2 t4 pieces and everything else s3.

i could have sworn there was another sub-forum for bullshit fag "buy my stupid ass mmorpg account with all this leet gear dewds" threads

Oh wait, there is. Neato.

pve gear doesnt work too well in arena though. but yes there are some exceptions... not familiar with lightbringer but the tier4 2piece mage bonus helps a shitload in arena.... (100% reduced pushback on frostbolt, fireball, and something else). i still see top ranked mages with 2 t4 pieces and everything else s3.

i don't know about that. that's a hefty stam/resil hit and mages are fragile enough as it is. it's more like that mages don't exist in highend pvp anymore except in RMP which it would be fatal to wear 2pc t4 (or anything but full pvp gear anyways)

paladins, shadowstep rogues, warriors in certain brackets, and druids situationally can use pve at a huge advantage.

The problem here is multifaceted. On the one side this is still a "traditional" MMORPG mold. While attempting to please two crowds, they ended up making more PvP in a PvE-based game. And it did work for a while anyway. But now two systems are coming to light and it's now becoming difficult to segregate PvP from PvE. Raiders still want the advantage for their time invested, and the PvPers feel raiding is too boring/time-consuming. The whole uber-Stam and Res rating nonsense was a rather moronic attempt to further separate the two and so far it hasn't worked.

The raiders don't feel rewarded because their gear is outclassed by gear that can be easily had with less effort. Time-wise is another story though. I'm sure if you lose 10 games a week it would still take you as long as the average full-time raider to get the same gear respectively. It's only by winning/playing more games can you decrease the time needed to get the gear.

Why aren't you "welfare epics" guys complaining about badge loot, too?

pve gear doesnt work too well in arena though. but yes there are some exceptions... not familiar with lightbringer but the tier4 2piece mage bonus helps a shitload in arena.... (100% reduced pushback on frostbolt, fireball, and something else). i still see top ranked mages with 2 t4 pieces and everything else s3.

Hmm, I wasn't aware of any other class besides paladin, maybe warrior (using shit like Cataclysm's Edge or armor ignore neck/ring) that used PvE gear in arenas.

Paladin's tho, like I mentioned above, have the biggest advantage when rocking T6. Check it out:

Lightbringer Raiment - Item Sets - World of Warcraft (http://www.wowhead.com/?itemset=681)

When 2.4 hits, 3 more pieces.. can't wait.

Rogues also benefit immensely from PvE gear.

The problem here is multifaceted. On the one side this is still a "traditional" MMORPG mold. While attempting to please two crowds, they ended up making more PvP in a PvE-based game. And it did work for a while anyway. But now two systems are coming to light and it's now becoming difficult to segregate PvP from PvE. Raiders still want the advantage for their time invested, and the PvPers feel raiding is too boring/time-consuming. The whole uber-Stam and Res rating nonsense was a rather moronic attempt to further separate the two and so far it hasn't worked.

The raiders don't feel rewarded because their gear is outclassed by gear that can be easily had with less effort. Time-wise is another story though. I'm sure if you lose 10 games a week it would still take you as long as the average full-time raider to get the same gear respectively. It's only by winning/playing more games can you decrease the time needed to get the gear.

if you logged in and lost 10 arena matches a week it would take you forever to get any pvp pieces

with the right group you can get your pve gear in a matter of weeks

I blame firefox for my double-posting...

it takes longer to get raid epics so wasting more time means you are better fyi. also I would move this to wowclassifieds but I can't find the button.

Rogues also benefit immensely from PvE gear.

It's pretty cool when I walk into arena's knowing that a rogue with access to top-end pve gear can get 200-300 more ap and slower, higher top end, weapons with just sacrificing 100 or less res. Go ahead, make it so you can't use arena stuff in PvE somehow, and do it vice versa with arena and PvE items.