Working with musicians who are BETTER THAN YOU

I used to be in bands where I was the best player. But for the past 8 years or so, I have always been the guy with the least amount of chops. I play guitar and sing for the most part, and did so in bands I fronted.

It all started in 99 or so when I picked up a drumkit, and taught myself to play drums (sorta). I started playing at open mic nights with just a djembe, which I'd played on and off for years. I wound up in a band with my future wife, who is an amazing singer. That band broke up, and we reformed a year later as her solo act, with me on drums. She'd been playing with the best bass player in the city as a duo.

So imagine being a rank beginner on drums, and playing with an experienced bassist and trying to hold up your end of the rhythm section. It was a little daunting :) 6 years later, I'm a much better drummer, and I think I was helped along a lot by playing with Chris. I've since moved to playing guitar with them. Unfortunately, Chris had a car accident, and broke his neck. He won't be playing again anytime soon.

So my wife and I are reforming (again) as another act, this time with me on guitar. We're hooking up with some guys we know and these guys are Berklee grads. One runs a very successful local studio and is a Grammy award winning producer with gold records on his studio walls. He's a bassist but will be playing drums (!) with the group. The other is a session guitarist who's amazing. I'll be playing guitar with this guy, trading off leads. He's an order of magnitude better than I am on guitar.

This should be interesting.

When you play with better musicians it forces you to step up and improve and try to reach their level, and just think of everything you will learn from them. I am envious.

Every time you get together, make sure you're on point and prepared.

Wish I could switch to different instruments like you. My primary focus is writing music and singing...feel like I've got no energy left over to learn other instruments. Pisses me off b/c it would help.

Your wife has a great voice, heard one of the recordings you posted in the past so I can vouch for it.

As far as working with better musicians: how would you describe 'better'? Reason being, I know many musicians who are very competent at their instruments, but at the same time, don't have that 'when to play' factor going on. For example: my bassist can play scales, and play them fast, but as far as playing them in an interesting manner (i.e. separate percussion outside of the drums; rather than playing 'off' the drums) has been a point of contention. Only way I can describe it is like the sound of a bunch of singers singing in the same key; as opposed to a professional choir that accomplishes harmony by singing independantly of each other, but the overall sound is the better off for it.

As far as working with better musicians: how would you describe 'better'?

Indeed. I tend to think of it in a range of variables, one of which is exactly what you said. I've learned and assimilated so many things from people over the years, and I'm grateful to have grown up in an almost scary musical town, considering its size.

But musician is too broad a term. Most of what I say here will be obvious, but the people who have impressed me the most usually have little chips in their armor somewhere, including many of the greats. That is to say, they were great at something in music, but not everything.

The Beatles, for instance, while not earth-shattering instrumentalists, were excellent songwriters - er...at least 3 of them were.

Meanwhile, I won't name names, but plenty of jazz/prog/fusion/metal/etcetera players can noodle all over their respective instruments, but they can't write a lasting melody or interesting set of changes, and many regularly bypass the aesthetic element in favor of the mechanical - they can play lots of notes in a short space of time, but are they good notes? So many play music that is to me "unmusical" or just filigree over changes. Ho hum.

Related to this, how many people have I heard who possess tremendous physical skill but no discernible soul? How many with questionable rhythm? Or people who have all the theory, chops, rhythm, and creativity but still don't understand melodic phrasing or musical sentences very well? Pianists who play the hell out of their instruments but still don't voice, balance, or add color to the bass/chord/melody components within a musical structure? (This in particular drives me nuts). There are plenty of theory newbs out there who can wail too, which isn't so bad, but you're not going to learn theory from them. Then we have the sell-outs, the derivatives, the fashionables, the banal-ites, the iconoclasts and avant gardists, the purists, the non-musician musicians (techno/house dudes, for instance), and on and on.

Bottom line: Learn what you can from everyone you know, but never hold anyone up on a pedestal until you know they don't have weaknesses (EDIT: Including your sacred cows (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sacred%20cow)). I've met in my lifetime personally only one person I can really say this about, and he was an international motherfucker of a musician and a brilliant intellect (RiP Yvar).

If the musicians you know have weak spots, try to find out what they are and in what way you can do better or even teach them. I remember seeing Chick Corea at Buffalo State College in the 1990s, and for all my love of his playing, I was thunderstruck at how much I didn't like many of his interpretations of classical (He played a lot of Scriabin) or his own tunes. His coloration seemed especially dry to me. And I hated his Elektric Band and still do. I'm not saying I could teach Chick anything, but I did notice some things where - if I had his brain and fingers - I would try to improve.

awesome post alek

Alekhine, good post. Interesting take on music...deeper than most people go with it. I think a lot of musicians ignore spacing. It's like a painting: you don't want to fill it up so much, and I hear a lot of bands doing that (essentially delivering what sounds like a wall of sound)

Mazzy Star to me is an example of simplicity that works. Very basic chords that repeat over and over with a band that plays minimalistically behind her. Yet that understated approach had so much magic in delivery. Mazzy Star and alcohol? sex making time

Bah, just got back from an impromptu night practice. Bassist had been drinking since 2 p.m. and couldn't get his shit right...sometimes it's infuriating working with other musicians, think I'm gonna ban alcohol at practices.

What kills me is that the band has potential, but the weakest ones (music doesn't come naturally to them) keep making the same f'king mistakes and won't practice in the off week...yet they are raving at the bit to go and play somewhere. Think I'm gonna have a sit down tomorrow with some of them and tell them to pick up the pace or step out...sucks because they were friends first.

jfdklajffasd

Thanks for the thoughts, Stig. I will carry your compliments on. Wait 'til Monday, we're finally gonna drop our song from the competition that Mins, myself, and Sass worked up.

Alek, some great points. You know, I really do have some insecurity about working with these degreed musicians (and I am most certainly not degreed). Your points about not putting people on pedastals until you know they have no weaknesses really hits home. I know that each of these dudes have weak points, Grammys or no.

We met with the bassist/producer last night. It looks like this is less of a band project and more of a "I want to produce your wife" things. I'm a little nervous about his approach and how much input I'll have. The dude is extremely successful musically and is an awesome player - and his production and recording chops are well ahead of mine. I mean, we're talking about the guy who writes the manuals for the DAW software I use. I have books on my shelves that he fucking wrote. It's hard to get past that.

But what the hell. I am going to turn my insecurity into humility, step up, do my best, and fucking RAWK as much as I am capable of, and not let the fact that these guys are great stand in my way so much as buoy me along.

Thanks for the thoughts, Stig. I will carry your compliments on. Wait 'til Monday, we're finally gonna drop our song from the competition that Mins, myself, and Sass worked up.

Alek, some great points. You know, I really do have some insecurity about working with these degreed musicians (and I am most certainly not degreed). Your points about not putting people on pedastals until you know they have no weaknesses really hits home. I know that each of these dudes have weak points, Grammys or no.

We met with the bassist/producer last night. It looks like this is less of a band project and more of a "I want to produce your wife" things. I'm a little nervous about his approach and how much input I'll have. The dude is extremely successful musically and is an awesome player - and his production and recording chops are well ahead of mine. I mean, we're talking about the guy who writes the manuals for the DAW software I use. I have books on my shelves that he fucking wrote. It's hard to get past that.

But what the hell. I am going to turn my insecurity into humility, step up, do my best, and fucking RAWK as much as I am capable of, and not let the fact that these guys are great stand in my way so much as buoy me along.

Good luck with that man. Imagine it will be hard, especially if you are used to composing with your wife...letting someone else come in and produce the sound is a little like giving someone else the authority over your kids, scary, but perhaps they can do a better job in some areas.

That's one of the reasons I'm trying hard to work with less than brilliant musicians right now (accept for drummer and keyboardist who rock) They are plaible (sp?) and I want them to be able to duplicate an album live. Thing I'm most proud of are our tempo change ups. I was told long ago to keep an even tempo on the songs I write (keep the verses, bridges, choruses the same) which I found left me with the option of going half or double time to mix it up. The drummer I'm working with is able to effectively play two beats (like rubbing your stomach and patting your head at the same time) so we are finding hybrids of the verse and chorus tempos in the bridges and starting to pull them off. Doing something a little different is 'cool' and all, but making it sound good is another matter, but it's slowly starting to happen. Only approach I know is to literally break the song down instrument by instrument.