OK Sooo... Hemo

Rogue

* Dirty Deeds: This talent will no longer interfere with getting the bonus damage from the Druid ability Mangle on Rupture and Garrote.
* Hemorrhage: This ability now does 125% of weapon damage.
* Shadowstep (Subtlety) can now be used at any time, not only while stealthed. Now increases the damage and reduces the threat caused by the next damaging ability. Cooldown increased to 30 seconds. Range changed to 25 yards. (Minimum range removed)

Now will they include any slower weapons in the future? What does the TW Rogue community think about now speccing Hemo? What about the ability to ShS into a hemo?

I think it'll be awesome, I love hemo. Anyone on PTR to give feedback?

I'm definitely going to be raiding as hemo, and probably make sure another rogue is as well. Most likely some variation of 11/27/23, or dropping a weapon spec and picking up Deadliness.

As for slow weapons, there are a couple - Syphon of the Nathrezim (2.8) and Warglaive of Azzinoth (2.8) that will absolutely dominate with the new hemo change.

I think this change is a pretty nice one, now I can not focus on hit as much and stack Agi....awww yeah!

AR Hemo is apparently quite beefy.

AR Hemo is apparently quite beefy.

ya, i have a fun mace/ar/prep/hemo setup on ptr and LOVE it.

havent gone with it on live server yet, but it's gonna be a blast. i think my dps may be slightly reduced, but that's likely more user error. :D

Tse link build! I have a few ideas but I want to compare notes :o

rip mutilate and combat pvp specs post 2.3. I don't like being forced into a spec, but oh well.

I don't like being forced into a spec

You do realise that all high end pvp and pve is pretty much forced speccing right? I pvp exclusively as a holy priest now and anything outside of 28/33 is a joke atm. FW (not fear ward heh, focused will) and targetable PS might make it a bit better but it's not looking so good at the moment.

I love the new AR hemo builds - I've played a mace rogue since level 60 when my choices in maces were total ass outside of Naxx. I've always wanted to be able to abandon the fucking assassination tree and go combat/sub and it was never really all that viable. I will confess to speccing 2/26/23 on the 1.12 PTR just because I wanted to try out all of those shiny talents together. I adored it and honestly was hoping that TBC would allow such a spec. It's nice to see something like that finally happening.

I will be 11/21/29 when 2.3 hits.

Isn't having 2 AR's worth more than the assassination points?

I'd like to see more viable 41-point talents myself. I rarely see rogues go 41 deep into any one tree, usually 3x/2x builds of the three. Mutilate is the one you hear about and that's usually a joke in PvP/PvE and pretty much only good for ganking. I rarely (if at all) hear about people talking about Surprise Attacks, and we know where lawlstep falls...

Being able to ShS into a Hemo is kinda cool, with Remorseless, MoS and ShS you could end up with a pretty badass 2nd mob hit. Now it would really only be beneficial in BGs, but still would be fun to try.

You do realise that all high end pvp and pve is pretty much forced speccing right?

Rogues were one of the few classes that were not. Mut combat, combat, and ar/prep were all viable choices for end game pvp, however, now ar/prep is the only choice. I don't care, honestly, but it would've been nice to retain the ability to be a little different from others.

I'm retarded when it comes to rogues, is there a decent hemo build for pvp/pve hybrid?

Just tried a full blown 41 point subtlety build on the test realm, and it didn't really seem like anything special.

Need some opinions from people who have tested mixed combat/hemo builds, because it's really hard to decide what would be best for pvp/arena.

I'd like to see more viable 41-point talents myself. I rarely see rogues go 41 deep into any one tree, usually 3x/2x builds of the three. Mutilate is the one you hear about and that's usually a joke in PvP/PvE and pretty much only good for ganking. I rarely (if at all) hear about people talking about Surprise Attacks, and we know where lawlstep falls...

Do you purposely try to say as many wrong things as possible in a single post? It sure feels like it.

Do you purposely try to say as many wrong things as possible in a single post? It sure feels like it.

I'm sorry, I hear everyone go on and on about Combat but I never hear anything about Surprise Attacks. And Sub's Shadow Step, well that's still debated now. Care to name off some other class talent specs that go 3x/2x or otherwise doesn't utilize any 41-point talent?

I'm sorry, I hear everyone go on and on about Combat but I never hear anything about Surprise Attacks. And Sub's Shadow Step, well that's still debated now. Care to name off some other class talent specs that go 3x/2x or otherwise doesn't utilize any 41-point talent?
90% of raiding rogues have Surprise attacks.

Mutilate is incredible, it's one of the best PvP specs, and it's the best PvE/PvP hybrid build with daggers.

Shadowstep is the only one that sucks, and you're just (as usual) fucking retarded.

Shadowstep is amazing in WSG w/ Shard of Azzinoth!

But anyways, unless you're raiding as Mutilate or 11/28/22 atm, you have Surprise Attacks.

And upon thinking it over, I might go 11/21/29 in 2.3 if I go hemo. I gotta stick to reading EJ because Scritty is too annoying on the WoW forums.

Shadowstep is amazing in WSG w/ Shard of Azzinoth!

But anyways, unless you're raiding as Mutilate or 11/28/22 atm, you have Surprise Attacks.

And upon thinking it over, I might go 11/21/29 in 2.3 if I go hemo. I gotta stick to reading EJ because Scritty is too annoying on the WoW forums.
Scritty is like mini-me. Not quite as knowledgeable, and not quite as assholeish.

I did Archimonde/TK as 11/21/29 tonight, it definitely isn't as good as the 14/26/21 I ran last week, at least on live.

Scritty is like mini-me. Not quite as knowledgeable, and not quite as assholeish.

I did Archimonde/TK as 11/21/29 tonight, it definitely isn't as good as the 14/26/21 I ran last week, at least on live.

So do you think deadliness is going to outperform 11/27/23 or some variation of such post 2.3? Without weapon spec, I was thinking of either pulling out my Boundless Agony for an offhand or my Fang of Vashj.

And why did you opt 14/26/21 (with Syphon I assume)? I went 11/28/22 swords this week and it faired pretty well.