[For quiksilver and co]Basic music theory

Assume that when i mention scales and modes, that i am talking about 7 note scales. Also, i am using the western musical scale and western instruments.

I'm gonna over simplify this.

The musical scale (chromatic scale) is composed of 12 notes. There are two ways to write the musical scale (4 if you use do-re-mi-etc).

Write the scale using sharps (#):

C-C#-D-D#-E-F-F#-G-G#-A- A# - B -C- C#-D -D# -E
1- 2 -3 -4 -5-6-7 - 8- 9 -10-11 - 12 -1- 2 - 3 -4 -5-
1- 2 -3 -4 -5-6-7 - 8- 9 -10-11 - 12 -13 -14-15 -16- 17

Using flats (b):
C-Db-D-Eb-E- F-Gb-G-Ab- A - Bb -B -C
1- 2 -3 -4 -5- 6-7 - 8- 9 -10- 11 - 12 -1


This is just the way they are noted. You don't need to look too deeply into it.
When you play an instrument, the notes are broken down as such. Now you're probably wondering, is it the same? For now you can say yes it's the same. Alek don't have your period (over simplified).
Db = C#

Gb = F #

Same note.


Scales are built revolving around one note (called the root/vamp).

You define a scale by it's intervals. I will be using C as the starting note since it is the most "simple scale" in most cases.

root = C

half step(minor second) (one note to the next)= so from C to C# (C to Db)

whole step (major second) (skip a note) = C to D, A to B, B to C#, etc

minor third = C to D#, E to G, etc

major third = C to E, D to F#, etc

fourth = C to F, E to A, etc

augmented 4th/ diminished 5th = C to F#, G to C#,etc

perfect 5th (power chords are simply the root and the fifth) = C to G, A to E
minor 6th = C to G#, F to C#,etc

major 6th = C to A, B to G#

minor 7th = C to A#, D to C

major 7th = C to B, G# to G

Octave = C to C(higher pitched), G to G, etc

Now, chords follow this rule.
The interval sets the mood.
Generally, the neutral intervals (no mood) are half step, whole step, 4th and 5th.
Sad intervals are anything with minor = minor 3rd, minor 6th, and minor 7th.
Happy intervals are anything with major = major 3rd, major 6th and major 7th.
Diminished/ Augmented = augmented 4th/diminished 5th

C "major" sounds happy, because it contains a major 3rd.
A minor sounds sad, because it contains a minor 3rd.

C major = c-e-g
A minor a-c-e

A scale or chord is major or minor depending entirely on the third.
The third is what defines a scale as happy or sad.

There are simple rules for chords:

The "minor" always refers to the third.
The "major" always refers to the seventh.

It's a misconception that people use major to mean the 3rd, because a C chord = C with a major 3rd.

For example,

C = C-E-G
C minor = C-F#-G

If you play C7, then you play :C-E-G-A# (minor 7th)
If you play Cmajor (7), then you play: C-E-G-B(MAJOR 7th)

If you play Cmin major (7th), you play: C-D#-G-B
etc

Now let's look at 7 tone scales.
A 7 tone scale is the same as a 7 note scale.

You have the major scale, which contains all neutral and all major intervals.
Let's look at C major.

The distance between note to note is:
C-D- E-F-G-A-B-C
-w-w-h-w-w-w-h

W= whole step
H= half step

Notice that translates to, intervals from C,
as

root, whole step,major 3rd, 4th,5th,major 6th and major 7th. Check it out with the musical scale posted above.

Minor scale has all minor intervals (uses major 2nd however).
Let's look at A minor.
A-B-C-D- E-F-G-A
-w-h-w-w-h-w-w

Root, whole step, minor 4rd, fourth,5th, minor 6th and minor 7th.

Is there something you noticed? If not, look at the intervals between notes:
Major: -w-w-h-w-w-w-h-
Minor:-w-h-w-w-h-w-w-
You'll notice they re the same but just at a different starting point.
You'll also notice that A minor has the exact same notes as C major.
Why do you think A minor sounds so well with C(chord wise)?
A is the natural minor of C.

Now we're dwelling into modes:

There are 7 (church) modes.

Ionian(major)
Dorian
Phrygian
Lydian
Mixolydian
Aoelian(minor)
Locrian

C ionian has the same notes as D Dorian, E phrygian, F lydian, G mixolydian, A Aeolian, and B locrian.

Take out the words, and you get, C D E F G A B.
Do you see how it works?

Each 7 note scale has 7 modes. A mode is basically an inverted scale. I.E. The same set of notes, same scale but simplfy a different starting and ending point.

What makes C ionian and F lydian different? They contain the exact same notes...

the difference is the starting point. The root now has different intervals that relate to it.

For example,
F lydian has an augmented 4th/diminished 5th that C ionian does not.

Thus if you play the c major scale starting from F, you'll notice it has a different feel and sound, even though the notes are exactly the same.
That being said, a mode's sound is defined by the intervals within it.

As an exercise, start from a different note in the C 7 note scale and try to find what intervals represent Dorian, etc

By the way, there are 3 major modes, 3 minor modes and one diminished /augmented mode.
An interval set defines what scale it is, or what mode it is.

Phrygian, aoelian and dorian all have a minor 3rd, therefore they have a sadder sound and are considered minor modes.
Ionian, mixolydian and lydian all have a major 3rd, therefore they are considered major modes since they have a happier sound due to it.

Locrian has an augmented 4th (and half step) from the root which gives it an evil sound. It is a diminished mode.

The augmented 4th/ diminsihed 5th is also known as the devil's note.

In old times, using it was thought to summon the devil or ill omen.
Those who used it in music were beheaded.
That's where it gets its name.

That's it for now. I hope you guys learned something. I'm writing this while at uni so sorry if it's rushed at parts. Any questions or whatnot, feel free to ask. I 'm sure other will chime in as well.

You won't get it in one sitting, you need to sit down, read it and figure it out on your instrument and go back and forth.

Cheers :wave:

D flat isnt the same as D sharp.

but is *is* the same as a C sharp o hooo

D flat isnt the same as D sharp.

I had fixed it and forgot to replace the D# by C#.

I meant

"Db = C#"

Fixed it now.

I had fixed it and forgot to replace the D# by C#.

I meant

"Db = C#"

Fixed it now.

I knew you did mr wizard.

STFU FAG.
*guitar solo*

Thanks Dave. I'm sitting down do do some of this.



Useful link?
Guitar-Guitar.com - Guitar Chord Generators (http://www.guitar-guitar.com/guitar-chord-generators.html#)

Anyone interested in expansion on these ideas might want to look at a post I wrote in 2003 about minor and major key relationships:

http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247134

Further clarification:

Dave's post above contains some fundamental inaccuracies, by the way (sorry, Dave, but this is important), that the beginner would want to avoid. Let's look at them:

He wrote that the C minor (Maj 7) chord is C-D#-G-B

It's not. It should be C-Eb-G-B

"But D# and Eb are the same note! Why does it matter?"

It matters because that crucial note is not to be seen as a sharped 2 (or more commonly the 9 when it is sharped at all, usually in a dominant V7 chord like F7 +9, not a minor chord), but as a flatted or minor 3 - in fact the most important note in the chord in terms of its minor quality.

C minor is a key of flats, not sharps. You won't use D# unless you modulate to a key that uses it.

For the same reason, Dave's illustration above of C7: C-E-G-A# is wrong. It should be C-E-G-Bb. That Bb represents the flatted value for the 7th - the minor 7th - where Dave wrote it as a sharped value for the major 6th/13th, which incidentally never happens in any chord that I know of, as it's the same note as a minor 7th.

Again, from C major going around the circle of fifths, you don't see the note A# in a diatonic key signature until you hit B major/g# minor, exactly on the other side of the circle of fifths, and the next-to-most remote key from C.

Never sub sharps for flats indiscriminately where they don't belong. It may seem like nitpicking, but it's totally not. It has to do with everything you learn about a key a tune is in. Dave seems to think it's kosher and that what I'm writing is just going to confuse you, but you shouldn't have learned the wrong way to begin with - it's harmful in the end. EDIT: Minstrel just described to me that guitar players tend to see no difference due to the way the instrument is taught, so I guess it's natural, but I would still encourage theory folk to try to see why it works the way it does.

That said, great job on the whole Dave (really), though you probably shouldn't have numbered the chromatic scale key values from 1-12 and beyond. For example: If one thinks chromatically from 1 to 12, one might think that the 9 in a chord like C7 (9) is referring to the note Ab since it's the 9th chromatic note from C, which is wrong intervalically. It's good enough to just say there are 12 notes in the chromatic scale and leave it at that, then write them in terms of their actual musical usage (as interval relationships).

The chromatic scale, from C, with interval definitions in the key of C.

C: Tonic or 1
Db: minor 2
D: Major 2
Eb: minor 3
E: Major 3
F: Perfect 4
F#: Tritone (or +4, or -5 as Gb)
G: Perfect 5
Ab: Minor 6
A: Major 6
Bb: minor 7
B: Major 7
C: Tonic again, or octave (8)

Then, past the first octave:

Db: flat 9 or -9
D: 9
D#: sharp 9 or +9 (Eb: min 10, not used in chord spellings)
E: (10, not used in chord spellings)
F: 11
F#: +11
G: (12, not used in chord spellings)
Ab: -13
A: 13

And there the extended scale ends, for all chord spellings. Start from a different note to figure out these same intervals in any other key, just make that note the tonic (and the note right after it the minor 2 and so on).

Again, those above are in the key of C. The note E, for example, though a Major 3 in C major, is also a minor 2 in Eb major (as Fb) and a Major 2 in D major/minor, and a minor 3 in C# minor, and a Perfect 4 in B major/minor, and a tritone in Bb major/minor, and a Perfect 5 in A, and a min 6 in G# minor/Ab minor (as Fb in Ab minor), and a Maj 6 in G major and a min 7 in F# minor, and a Major 7 in F major, and so on with the 9, 11, 13s, etcetera...


Using this, you will know that a C7 (+9, -13) will spell the following chord:

C-E-G-Bb (the C7 Dave defined above, sort of) plus the notes D# (+9) and Ab (-13).

In other keys, you get this sort of thing:

G min 7 (9): G-Bb-D-F-A
F# min 7 (-5/11): F#-A-C-E-B. Note that I omitted the perfect fifth of F# here, which would be the C#, normally existing in a min 7 chord. This is because it is indicated as being flatted in the chord spelling (-5). This chord usually functions as a II in the key of E minor, which leads to the V (B7 altered; ask me later) then to the E minor.

About the 9, 11, and 13: Easy shortcut: Just think of the 9, 11, and 13 as the 2, the 4, and the 6, respectively. I won't tell anyone. See a +/- next to them, and you know to sharp or flat them. Even though the 9, 11, and 13 are defined as extending the octave, it doesn't mean you are restricted from inverting the chord and putting them at the bottom or wherever sounds right. They're still considered ancillary qualities of the chord as if they were past the octave, and still get those names.

Example: A popular jazz spelling of C7 (9/13): C(1)-E(M3)-A(13)-Bb(m7)-D(9), which can also be played C--Bb-D-E-A and many other ways.


_________________________ ______________

Finally, when describing modes, it's helpful to say something about the character or flavor of them rather than just saying what they are. Dave did this to some extent in defining them as happy, sad, and evil, but the particular flavors of them are decided by other notes than the third (or aug 4 in locrian) that distinguish the minor modes from the other minor modes and majors from majors. For example, let's take the phrygian mode (or "that friggin' mode"). If you play through it, you might notice that it has a familiar sound (or you might not). It is often called the "Spanish mode," because it's used extensively in flamenco music and has a distinctly Spanish flavor. Modes aren't just meant to be learned. Each one has a character that is useful in some type of music-making. Dorian is especially common in minor-key modal jazz music. Familiar melodies to all of us are written in each mode. The Simpsons theme song is distinctly Lydian, for example.

Here are the wikis for each. I omitted ionian (tonic) and aeolian because these are just simple natural major and minor keys. You will recognize familiar tunes in each wiki:


II: Dorian mode - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorian_mode)
III: Phrygian mode - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygian_mode)
IV Lydian mode - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lydian_mode)
V: Mixolydian mode - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixolydian_mode)

VII: Locrian mode - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locrian_mode)

this thread makes me want to be intimate with you dave

d

For fuck sake Alek, i told you "OVERSIMPLIFIED". :p: VGX!
You get people caring about that when they understand the basics.

Speaking of modes,
Joe Satriani uses lydian extensively, as does Steve Vai to some degree.

Yngwie Malmsteen loves to use phrygian as well as harmonic and melodic minor.
Harmonic minor is a favorite of mine, it's a very effective way to release tension and it sounds cool.

edit: you might as well explain what the circle of fifth is, before using the term :p:
Nevermind i can't read.

Alek, you really make things too complicated.
When you tell them
"This chord usually functions as a II in the key of E minor, which leads to the V (B7 altered; ask me later) then to the E minor."
It's too much! Start REAL slow. We know you're a musical god, but christ, not everyone is.

Dave,

Thanks for the critique. I appreciate it.

You are no doubt right about some of it, especially with the example cited about the F# min 7 (-5, 11) chord. I used that one specifically to illustrate a min 7 chord that would not include the normal perfect 5 value, and is thus outside of the normal definition for a min 7 chord, which I think you described above. Special case, special chord, but an important one. You're definitely right that its function as a II is past this point of discussion and needn't be learned right now. That was my bad. Probably got carried away, but that's really the only function of that chord, so I figured I might as well say it. The rest of this stuff isn't too bad to comprehend if read over. It is by all means the basics.

At any rate, the reason I have to be this specific is from years of teaching. I've seen far too many students with the wrong ideas about this stuff from the get-go, and they were the hardest ones to teach, because they had to unlearn what they learned wrong. Also, some of this stuff is meant for everyone to dig into who can get something from it, including you, if you'd like to.

The problem with music theory is that it's not easy and there's no easy way out, and if you don't nip these little things in the bud, you'll have problems later on when you do start to learn the hard things. I don't expect anyone to read this and instantly understand it. I didn't, but my teacher was just like I'm being, very precise about it, and it sunk in with work. Even if the reader understands 50% of it or kind of gets the gist, that's at least something. You understood it, right? If so, then it's possible that others will with enough conscious effort and practice too.

Also, I come from the school of thought that it's good to illustrate a theoretical wrong and say why it is when you see it, but YMMV.

This entire bit I wrote would constitute weeks of interval training in a normal theory course, but like math, it's important not to screw up the initial algebra or you won't have the tools to do the trig, and this isn't the trig, believe me.

I am gonna type this out, although I am a little drunk and have a broken pinky.

Dave, guitar players oversimplify theory. Period, but if you talk to a guitarist that started out on Keys, they know all this shit. Look at some lessons by Tony Mcalpine or even Eric Johnson and you will see what I mean. I love that you are trying to make it easier for the begginers, but it is gonna hurt them in the lonrun cause they are gonna have to unlearn what they have learned and learn it the right way. Theyare gonna feel cheated as I did when I started to learn musical theory from the viewpoint of a pianist. Take my word for it, Alek cortrecting you now is going to save these guys alot of problems in the future. I just wish I knew everything that Alek does.

You're wrong dude. The simplified way doesn't mean the wrong way. Alek just needs to explain more as he goes into it.
I'm fine with what you're doing. However, take more time to explain everything. Like you mentioned I, V and all that. What if they don't know what it is.
What if you decide to say the dominant chord is V, without explaining what it really means.
You know more than i do, for sure. However, blasting complete newbs with the right stuff makes it difficult for them.
I'm not saying blast them with the wrong stuff, i'm saying explain it more.
You have to completely pick it apart.
:wave:

Practice tip to follow:

Dave, the parts where I was referring to the II or the V were just little parenthetical digressions, not particularly important right now. "Onoes. You can't just mention stuff and not explain what it is." You'll see in physics books throwaway things like this ("...this example applies to Newtonian physics, but in Einstein's relativity it doesn't work that way. See chapter 8.")

I'll get to the ii-V-I stuff if I have the time this week. I was more interested in showing people how to decipher chord spellings and learn intervals.

_________________________ _________________

For now, I'll leave those of you looking to understand intervals with a very useful tip for figuring out intervals inside of an octave.

You can take an interval and invert it, like so:

C ----> A becomes A -----> C

Now that we've done that inversion, let's consider A the tonic/1 instead of C for the purpose of this exercise. In other words, assume we're now in the key of A.

We know that A is the major 6th of C from what was written in the above posts, both mine and Dave's. Doing this inversion will instantly tell us that C is the minor 3rd of A, without even really having to think about it. How?

This is the rule: When inverting an interval, change minor to major, perfect stays perfect (4ths and 5ths), and tritone stays tritone, and it will always add up to 9.

So:

C to E = Major 3
...means that E to C = minor 6

Major goes to minor, and 3 + 6 = 9. Doing this, we know that in the key of E minor, C is the sixth. Or more all-inclusively, in relation to E in general, C is the minor 6th.

C to F = Perfect 4
F to C = Perfect 5

Perfect stays perfect, 4 + 5 = 9.

C to F# = tritone
F# to C = tritone

Tritone stays tritone, and here we can call the tritone sort of the 4.5 interval, as it's halfway through the chromatic scale. 4.5 + 4.5 = 9.

More:

E to F# = major 2
F# to E = minor 7

F# to D = minor 6
D to F# = Major 3

E to B = Perfect 5
B to E = Perfect 4

G to F# = Major 7
F# to G = minor 2

Eb to C = Major 6
C to Eb = minor 3

And so on...

This advice goes mostly to guitar players. A good way to help you remember chords with extensions and alterations is trying to put them into a context. Knowing the usual three scales, major diatonic and harmonic and melodic minor keys will help. You'll find them in all elementary music theory texts.

I for one didn't really know what to do with all the G7alt voicings I'd learned until I learned a bunch of tunes in minor keys. That's where they pop up all the time. The G7alt chords also tended to show up after a certain sound and then resolve into another specific sound in a ii-V-i (two-five-one) progression. So I'd try and fit every alt voicing I learned into a iib5-Valt7-i progression, and it all made sense.

For me, 'getting' chords comes down to how well I can map out all possible permutations of notes in a context of a song. I can't really use a voicing on the fly unless I know how to arrive at it or move from that one to the next.

Alek, great posts. I learned some things I hadn't realized about chord spellings.

Dave: relax. Alek has valuable information that he can pass on to all of us, and hating on him isn't exactly encouraging. This isn't GD or GA. Can we keep it civil?