[Supplement Help] Just starting out

Ok so I need so advice. I am 6'5'' 220 and need to add some more definition and mass. I plan on working out regularly and also taking alot of supplements. I have done alot of research on prohormones and all that but since they are illegal cant get those. So I am planning on taking 6-OXO, creatin, my whey protien. Anything else I should take. Has anyone tried the beta-alanine? T-nation seems to like it alot.

Obviously I will be eating about 6 times a day to help gain the mass and all that. Just need some advice on where to start with my supplements.

Also what about DHEA?

The only supplement I think is worth it is Creatine Monohydrate. Whey protein is nice for those days you aren't getting enough protein, but that rarely happens for me.

I'm not sure why you would take 6-OXO unless you've recently done a cycle of steroids/prohormones.

I don't think you need to fuck with Beta Alanine and see how you are doing. Beta Alanine is primarily intended to help recovery. If you're just starting to lift, you're not going to be in a state where recovery becomes an issue for a while.

My personal recommendation is to start lifting some weights and see how you do before planning on taking a bunch of drugs to increase your performance. You don't even know what your performance will be yet. Save your money til you find something you feel really needs tweaking if taking supplements makes you feel better.

First off, you should be taking fish oils. They are proven to improve insulin sensitivity and fat-loss above and beyond the 600 other health benefits you have probably heard about.

I don't think you really need 6-OXO. The science behind it is shacky at best and the long term sides are not well understood so the possible cost probably out weighs the possible benefit.

On beta-alanine, this stuff actually holds huge promise but IMHO I would not buy from T-nation as there stuff is overpriced. Remeber that they are out there to make money first and for most and are as shaddy as most other supplement companies.

Beta-alanine is up there w/ creatine IMHO for supplements that are probably worth taking. In fact certain studies have shown it is actually more effective then creatine and for endurance atheletes it is probably more useful due to it's buffering capacity. Anyways, here are the studies on HUMANS cause I would probably get called out if I didnt provide them.


Study 1: Compares Creatine, Beta-Alanine, or Creatine + Beta-Alanine on work capacity. Suprisingly they found Beta-Alanine and Beta-Alanine + Creatine both had statistically significant effects but Creatine alone did not. Remeber work capacity is a quasi-aerobic measure which is probably why creatine showed less of an effect.

Effects of twenty-eight days of beta-alanine and creatine monohydrate supplementation on the physical working capacity at neuromuscular fatigue threshold.
Stout JR, Cramer JT, Mielke M, O'Kroy J, Torok DJ, Zoeller RF.

Department of Health and Exercise Science, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK 73019, USA. jrstout@ou.edu

The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of 28 days of beta-alanine (b-Ala) and creatine monohydrate (CrM) supplementation on the onset of neuromuscular fatigue by using the physical working capacity at neuromuscular fatigue threshold (PWC(FT)) test in untrained men. Fifty-one men (mean age +/- SD = 24.5 +/- 5.3 years) volunteered to participate in this 28-day, double-blind, placebo-controlled study and were randomly assigned to 1 of 4 groups: placebo (PLA; 34 g dextrose; n = 13), CrM (5.25 g CrM plus 34 g dextrose; n = 12), b-Ala (1.6 g b-Ala plus 34 g of dextrose; n = 12), or b-Ala plus CrM (CrBA; 5.25 g CrM plus 1.6 g b-Ala plus 34 g dextrose; n = 14). The supplement was ingested 4 times per day for 6 consecutive days, then twice per day for 22 days before posttesting. Before and after the supplementation, subjects performed a continuous incremental cycle ergometry test while a surface electromyographic signal was recorded from the vastus lateralis muscle to determine PWC(FT). The adjusted mean posttest PWC(FT) values (covaried for pretest PWC(FT) values) for the b-Ala and CrBA groups were greater than those for the PLA group (p < or = 0.05). However, there were no differences between the CrM vs. PLA, CrBA vs. b-Ala, CrM vs. b-Ala, or CrM vs. CrBA groups (p > 0.05). These findings suggested that b-Ala supplementation may delay the onset of neuromuscular fatigue. Furthermore, there appeared to be no additive or unique effects of CrM vs. b-Ala alone on PWC(FT).

Study 2: Looked at how beta-alanine effects strength production, hormone levels and body composition. For you weight lifters this is probably more relevent. This one again showed the best results w/ Creatine+Beta-Alaninine or Creatine alone but not so much w/ just Beta-Alanine so it seems like they are best stacked. The combo had a significant impact of body composition and strength output but not hormone levels.

Effect of creatine and beta-alanine supplementation on performance and endocrine responses in strength/power athletes.
Hoffman J, Ratamess N, Kang J, Mangine G, Faigenbaum A, Stout J.

Dept. of Health and Exercise Science, The College of New Jersey, Ewing, NJ 08628, USA.

The effects of creatine and creatine plus beta-alanine on strength, power, body composition, and endocrine changes were examined during a 10-wk resistance training program in collegiate football players. Thirty-three male subjects were randomly assigned to either a placebo (P), creatine (C), or creatine plus beta-alanine (CA) group. During each testing session subjects were assessed for strength (maximum bench press and squat), power (Wingate anaerobic power test, 20-jump test), and body composition. Resting blood samples were analyzed for total testosterone, cortisol, growth hormone, IGF-1, and sex hormone binding globulin. Changes in lean body mass and percent body fat were greater (P < 0.05) in CA compared to C or P. Significantly greater strength improvements were seen in CA and C compared to P. Resting testosterone concentrations were elevated in C, however, no other significant endocrine changes were noted. Results of this study demonstrate the efficacy of creatine and creatine plus beta-alanine on strength performance. Creatine plus beta-alanine supplementation appeared to have the greatest effect on lean tissue accruement and body fat composition.

Study 3: Looking at Beta-Alanine + Creatine on aerobic performance. Nothing significant was found but a time-dependent significance was found on some measures which hints at a possible effect.

Effects of 28 days of beta-alanine and creatine monohydrate supplementation on aerobic power, ventilatory and lactate thresholds, and time to exhaustion.
Zoeller RF, Stout JR, O'kroy JA, Torok DJ, Mielke M.

Department of Exercise Science and Health Promotion, Florida Atlantic University, Davie, FL, U.S.A..

The effect of beta-alanine (beta-Ala) alone or in combination with creatine monohydrate (Cr) on aerobic exercise performance is unknown. The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of 4 weeks of beta-Ala and Cr supplementation on indices of endurance performance. Fifty-five men (24.5 +/- 5.3 yrs) participated in a double-blind, placebo-controlled study and randomly assigned to one of 4 groups; placebo (PL, n = 13), creatine (Cr, n = 12), beta-alanine (beta-Ala, n = 14), or beta-alanine plus creatine (CrBA, n = 16). Prior to and following supplementation, participants performed a graded exercise test on a cycle ergometer to determine VO(2peak), time to exhaustion (TTE), and power output, VO(2), and percent VO(2peak) associated with VT and LT. No significant group effects were found. However, within groups, a significant time effect was observed for CrBa on 5 of the 8 parameters measured. These data suggest that CrBA may potentially enhance endurance performance.

We I have been working out in my garage on my machine weights for a couple of months now and need to take the next step. Thats why I was curious what supplements everyone is taking. I am taking the 6-OXO because its supposed to be the replacement for prohormone and increase thetestosterone production. Thus increasing my mass at a faster rate, Or thats how I understand it to work.

Plus I think Patrick Arnold is a fucking genious and have faith in his products.

Are there any brands of creatine or glutamine that you guys trust more than others? A lot of the companies come across as cheap and shady.

Rayn: why creatine monohydrate vs. creatine ethyl ester? Just curious, I haven't been using either one.

I just use some cheap ass creatine monohydrate. Its far cheaper and there is no scientific proof that it is any less helpfull than the way more expensive ethyl ester.

As for the original poster. I wouldn't do anything. When you start using free weights and going hard your gains will be huge anyways. Use the creatine/whey when you start to plateau, which wont be for another 6 months of so.

Hey,

So, I've been thinking about using some creatine. Would it be beneficial for improving my heavy lifts (eg deadlift and benchpress) over a period of time? Is there a thread somewhere which will tell me how to use it and get started?

Hey,

So, I've been thinking about using some creatine. Would it be beneficial for improving my heavy lifts (eg deadlift and benchpress) over a period of time? Is there a thread somewhere which will tell me how to use it and get started?

depending on how long you've been lifting, yes it will help but its minimal. The point is to get that extra rep or 2 in. That said, get monohydrate, and don't "preload" its a crock of shit. Other than that, just do what it says on the tub... usually 1 heaping teaspoon a day.

The only other thing that people talk about is when to take it. I've heard the best results come from taking it right after a work out so that way your muscles are depleaded and it sucks the stuff up like crazy. If you take it before hand you're just playing a guessing game as to when its going to be at its peak usage etc etc.

Rayn: why creatine monohydrate vs. creatine ethyl ester? Just curious, I haven't been using either one.I get cheap creatine in bulk from 1fast400.com. It's worked for me. Ethyl Ester is overpriced for no appreciable proof of added results. Monohydrate got cheap, so supplement mfg'rs started looking for a new way to make money on it.