Why I'm not playing T2

May I just add, I've logged in a LOT of hours pubbing in t2, played in multiple scrims and matches.

I also happen to think that I am an above average player both in t1 and t2. However, after all the novelty's and such (discovering what all the vehicles did, playing with cloak pack, playing with shocklance, playing being a super cheap ass :p ) most of the time T2 is very frustrating and leads to anger, and then to hate.

So I would put myself in the category of "i do play t2 a lot, but i hate it at times" I also believe this happens to be the stance of a lot of other POE players, who are only playing t2 for the team, and not because they LOVE the game. Some like the game, but again, do not LOVE it and are fanatics, and tell everybody that its the greatest game in the world. Yet, we have all put in a great deal of time and energy, playing in pubs/scrims/matches.

Perhaps another 10 patches down the line, things will get better. Then again, that implication means that the game here and NOW, has something broken, ie: serious gameplay issues.

and pendragon, check your pm, i sent you a little something =)

Originally posted by [4M]Harlequin_Jester
You put more effort in, therefore the enjoyment and rewards for a win are that much greater.

This is where a lot of the psychological reward comes from for me in T2. In T1, you do so much in such a short amount of time that none of it feel significant in the end. The work involved in accomplishing tasks in T2 paves the way for a powerful reward. This is the essense of why I liked Base Plus, too.

Originally posted by Locke355
Please stop refering to t1 as a game that required "no teamwork" or "less teamwork than tribes 2". Tribes 1 required just as much teamwork, if not more. The amount of people required to pulloff something does not make it "requiring more teamwork", just means you need more bodies to accomplish one goal. As we went over before, t2 is filled with shit positions no one wants to play. Now just because you average 16 (or whatever) players per team vs. 10 does NOT mean that those extra 6 morons turreting / spamming turrets / in the cluster back chaining some tank make a game with more teamwork. You can (and is the case) have just as much required "teamwork" attained in a game that plays 10 on 10 as one that plays 16+ on 16+. Refer to LoLnOw and my posts in this tread on teamwork.

If you really want to continue the "no teamwork" in t1 stance, at least do me a favor and bring me a rubber stamp and an ink pad so i can plant DUMBASS on your forehead.

I clearly identified this a page or so ago as a simple misdefinition of terms.

work that tag, shade!

Originally posted by GigaFool

Ok you fucking idiot..

And again, idiot...

I'm responding to you because you're a fucking dolt..

...and I'm glad you don't represent the renegades community as a whole, because I'd be embarassed to have you speaking for me.

Why don't you take on the points Cav was making (or anyone else) instead of trying to be a forum-bully, and gloss over his points with only shit you, and your old-school buddies would find amusing. Why don't you comment on his grammar or spelling; it would be equally as distasteful and ineffective.

I don't know if you understand how the internet works, but your FUCKING GAME IS GONE, and you sittin around crying about it, becomes less and less popular every day. Everyone understands that "you" don't like the game."don't let the door hit you in the ass" is what they pretty much think about it too. All except the people in "therapy" here with you.


What's ironic, is that 80% of the loudest T2 haters will still play it, and still be a forum-whore poster about it, 6 months from now. What you may not understand, is that I'll be here too, and a hell-of-a-lotta other people as well.


I'm from the camp that believes if you don't like the neighbors in your neighborhood, you move. You're like the guy that wants to stay in his house, and yell at everyone else around him to "get the fuck out" or some other kind of explicative.

Maybe TW should start a new forum called T1-anonymous, and password it, so you can go have big support meetings. Frankly, I think some of you need some therapy.

Flame away, I'll be happy to come back tomorrow and catch up, tard (had to throw that in, didn't wanna come off as mature or anything).

Damn, you're on to me. I guess you've noticed that I let dumb fucks know that they're stupid.

You obviously can't read for understanding (I hear they teach that in grade school now, go catch up), so let me sum it up for you.

I have a problem with people who are stupid. I feel the need to correct them, whether I agree with them or not.

You haven't heard my points on T2. You don't know if I like it or not.

All you need to know is that you, and your friend Cavalier, both lack intelligence.

Originally posted by Wulfen


Wrong. T2 is what Dave wanted T1 to be.
BZZZT wrong sorry Tribes wasn't supposed to be about the skiing and mine disking and what not. Unless you actually think programmers enjoying coding physics models so much that they thought it would be fun to waste their time putting in APC's. Not to mention Sensors, Jammers and big plasma turrets. You just gotta LOOK at what game with the game instead of just how is was played in the end

Kinda a point I really havent seen come up- Tribes 1 didnt have a "ski-script" @ the start. I didnt have that script till close to a year after the release of Tribes 1.


What happens if there is a T2 ski script? Is that possible? /me shrugs

I know that changed the game alot-It made HO possible

Just asking:O

Hi

Nat, if you have ideas for T1 that will bring more competition back, I'm all for it. Dip, if they gave $2000 for the T1 ladder as well as T2, I'd be playing T1, just as I do now.


On another note, all you T1 vets that dont like T2 CTF, try out Siege. It's really fun. T2 CTF (pubs) are very crappy, so I rarely play them anymore. So when looking for a pub, I normally play Siege. I haven't joined a Siege tribe yet, but I might. Maybe Red Death will start a Siege tribe. :)

Team Hunters is extremely fun also.



To all of you who love T2, may you have good games and no redjacks.

To all of you who love T1, please come play with me! :)


- Mack

Originally posted by {CG}Pendragon
These sports analogies are kind of missing the mark.

T1 is not basket ball and T2 baseball, etc.

The single greatest factor of T1 was this:

Skill Headroom

In T1, you could practice your skiing, and your movement and hone your skills to a razors edge.

There were super skilled fast cappers, wicked evil fast HO and elite Light Defense.

All of these positions required a very high degree of awareness and a very high level of mobility - expressed in a different way.

In T1, the speeds you could move at were virtually unlimited - and with disc jumping, people could trade health for speed - there was an skill economy that favored experience and practice to a high degree. No matter how good I thought I was, I would continue to practice and eventually, I was able to get better, faster, more accurate, more aware.

This is where T2 fell flat on its face, and this is the very core of what offends every one of us "naysayers":

The "wind resistance" / velocity cap puts a very practical limit on the speed of each armor class. This does not seem like a big deal but imagine:

Imagine if everyone in football and basketball moved at EXACTLY THE SAME SPEED perhaps it would be more precise if every player in the sport had exactly the same top speed.

Why work out? why do sprints? why watch your weight - why improve? Once someone is a few steps ahead of you, unless they stumble, you are not going to catch them.

What you ski haters fail to see (or maybe you see it and do not value it or appreciate its intrinsic uniqueness to all FPS games) is that Tribes 1 simulated virtual athleticism.

Skiing was something that you could exercise and practice and get better at. Disc jumps allowed people to trade health for instant speed - these kinds of tactical skills and decisions elevated the skill required to play the game.

While I understand your view point look at it this way. Everything you just described was reacting. While it is a skill worth devolping (and one I posses even though you seem to think I am incapable of playing tribes) its not necessarily the best way to play. can't <i>catch</i> the flag capper in a chase? Why not be were he's going to be in the first place or use an elf gun to lower his speed. Here's an example 2 ld around flag one elfs the other kills


Tribes 2 does not have any such elements that I have yet been able to identify.

This seems a simple lack of imagination on your part, I have thought up about 200 things that I think would work. You need to look outside that narrow Tribes box of three main positions and figure out a few new things


As someone mentioned and I have often observed, some people have this vision of team work as "everyone going in at once" - like combat is some kind of virtual pep rally where we all go to the enemy base together and then, as a team, we shoot at the other team and whatever team is still standing - well, gosh by golly, they had the better team work and they have earned the right to saunter off into the sunset with the flag...

More or less true only I rather saw tribes as having a good group offense engaging the D long enough to allow a capper to get in and out. You belittle it but if you ever saw it you would be so awe struck you'd switch to our side ;)

That concept of teamwork is boring and lame and I hate it and it offends everything in me that knows what fun is.

brother DID you pick the wrong game:)

T1 had team work, but it was about coordination and precision. You hadt o clear the flag defenses with HO, you had to put pressure on different resources, you had to repair and defend - and you had to know when to call in cappers - the defense had to know when to stay at the base and when to chase or move to assist. The game was absolutely team oriented, but everyone had a role and they were required to perform it at a very hight level as individuals or the team would suffer as a whole.

THis is still true in T2 only much more difficult to pull off and this is where I at least see a failing in ability of T2 haters or as you would put where we think you suck. everything you described above could be done in about a minute in Tribes and if you screwed up you could quickly set it up again becassue it was so excedingly easy, I mean if the base went down you had a good chance of keeping it down therby eliminating the most effective D. Where as here in T2 you got fewer chances to pull of what ever it is you want to do effectivly. You can kill the base but if your capper screws up you can't send him in again and expect him to face a ton of naked lights with all turrets down. Odds are that base is back up and the d is back in place and ready for you to try again what ever it was you tried before. This is the challenge of T2.

Of course I fully expect you to retort with some trite remark about how I suck and that this will never happen but understand this is what I mean when I say T2 takes teamwork and this is the level of competition I was expecting with Tribes and wound up disappointed with another quake knock off.

I read Nat post and no others.......good luck playing whatever you do. Too bad you don't like T2 many old T1 people do and T2 has brought FRESH blood into the game.


Saying no more cause I'm sure my points have/had been made by other people.


Of course there are still people playing QuakeWorld see if you can get a match going :lol:

I will keep my opinions of T2 to myself, but I read something here that I had to comment on:

I didn't play base competitively, doesn't mean I don't know how Natural like Wrote the Book on LD in T1

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHA

fuckin tard
./me giggles his ass off

A plague on BOTH your houses!

Hmm..

Perhaps as a test, they could have $1500 for T2 and $500 for T1, just to see how many people will play T1. What you think DipStick? Think more people would come back to T1? Lets do whatever it takes! :)

-Mack

It boils down to the fact that the people have been learning strats and techniques for 2 years and now they see that very little of that "t1 skill" has any use in T2. Becoming a newbie all over again is a humbling experience.

Also, anyone expecting the same adrenaline rush that T1 gave is a fool. T1's rush was because people were scrambling to cover for the obvious flaws in balance (HO too strong, etc) that the game had. Nothing more, nothing less. T2 is a much more balanced game so it feels slower. Skiing isn't THAT much slower, but the maps ARE bigger so those 15 second caps are less likely.

T2 is a thinking gamer's game. T1 is a twitch gamer's game. Think of it this way, it's nice to be able to choose one style of play or the other depending on mood. If you like twitch gameplay, play T1. If you feel like playing a thinking game, play T2.

I DO think that over time T2 will speed up some. Already we are seeing more coordinated attacks and people hitting cap routes alot quicker. Give it time. It took T1 about 4-6 months to get to the speed level that we're all used to.

If you don't want to wait, that's fine. Go play T1 and get that 'exhiliration' you desire. To me, T1 is now boring. Yes, I get an adrenaline rush, but the gameplay is BORING. All the strats are tried. People know what works and what doesn't. To me, alot of joy comes from testing out different strats to see what works.

Go ahead and play T1 with it's "havetoplaythisstratonthis map" style... I'll stick to playing T2 with it's nearly endless strat possibilities.
The beauty of it is that we have a choice.

-MH

I can't believe I read the whole thing.

Lots of valid points on both sides.

However I'd just like to cover a certain percentage of the posters.

When calling someone an idiot, say "You're an idiot" instead of "Your an idiot"

Anyhow, play T2..don't play T2...whatever.

There already is a built in ski "script" for T2 skillz...

madhatter: you should really see the twl stats on maps, playing balanced/open call and more dox maps ahve forced teams to make up new strats and ideas on how to play them. also making new cap routes and d strats. its really very fun =)

Well, nat hit it on the head with this one. I still think that he should have made this speach in front of dave at E3 instead of just standing there waiting for locke to insult him.

:)

AMEN! couldn't have said it any better.

Originally posted by {CG}Pendragon
These sports analogies are kind of missing the mark.

T1 is not basket ball and T2 baseball, etc.

The single greatest factor of T1 was this:

Skill Headroom

In T1, you could practice your skiing, and your movement and hone your skills to a razors edge.

There were super skilled fast cappers, wicked evil fast HO and elite Light Defense.

All of these positions required a very high degree of awareness and a very high level of mobility - expressed in a different way.

In T1, the speeds you could move at were virtually unlimited - and with disc jumping, people could trade health for speed - there was an skill economy that favored experience and practice to a high degree. No matter how good I thought I was, I would continue to practice and eventually, I was able to get better, faster, more accurate, more aware.

This is where T2 fell flat on its face, and this is the very core of what offends every one of us "naysayers":

The "wind resistance" / velocity cap puts a very practical limit on the speed of each armor class. This does not seem like a big deal but imagine:

Imagine if everyone in football and basketball moved at EXACTLY THE SAME SPEED perhaps it would be more precise if every player in the sport had exactly the same top speed.

Why work out? why do sprints? why watch your weight - why improve? Once someone is a few steps ahead of you, unless they stumble, you are not going to catch them.

What you ski haters fail to see (or maybe you see it and do not value it or appreciate its intrinsic uniqueness to all FPS games) is that Tribes 1 simulated virtual athleticism.

Skiing was something that you could exercise and practice and get better at. Disc jumps allowed people to trade health for instant speed - these kinds of tactical skills and decisions elevated the skill required to play the game.

Tribes 2 does not have any such elements that I have yet been able to identify.

As someone mentioned and I have often observed, some people have this vision of team work as "everyone going in at once" - like combat is some kind of virtual pep rally where we all go to the enemy base together and then, as a team, we shoot at the other team and whatever team is still standing - well, gosh by golly, they had the better team work and they have earned the right to saunter off into the sunset with the flag...

That concept of teamwork is boring and lame and I hate it and it offends everything in me that knows what fun is.

T1 had team work, but it was about coordination and precision. You hadt o clear the flag defenses with HO, you had to put pressure on different resources, you had to repair and defend - and you had to know when to call in cappers - the defense had to know when to stay at the base and when to chase or move to assist. The game was absolutely team oriented, but everyone had a role and they were required to perform it at a very hight level as individuals or the team would suffer as a whole.