Why I'm not playing T2

I think I want to have Pendragon's children. :/

why is this thread on page 30?

Originally posted by #1 Stunner


D00D NATUREAL I AM ALL TEH WAY WITH YOU ON EHTIS ONE TRIBES TOO SUCKXS DUDE WE SHOULUD GO BACK TO T1 ANDMAKE OUR OWN TRIBE WE CAN CALL IT TEH [#1 NATURALS] AND THEN WE WILL PLAY WITH TEH HEAVY ARMORS AND SKI IN TO TAKE THE FALG AND PEOPLE WILL RECORD US OUN DEMOS AND THEN PUT THEM UP ON THESE SITE AND PEOPEL WIL SAY #1 NATURLA HOW YOU DID TAT? WITH THE FLAG ADN THE MAIR SHOT DUDE PM ME AND WE ACN RETURN OUR TERIBES 2 BOX TORGETHER OK OH AND SAY HI TO THEH KINRETIC PORTIC FOR ME AND RAW NIPLE////

omfg. this is fucking funny. and that picture goddamn owns mang.

|EM|Snake

Pendragon very good points. But when you are talking about the disc jumps.. i think that maybe in a few months that t2 will have something like that. It took t1 time to find the dj and i think that it will be the same for t2. you forget that t2 is a new game, and because of that you are going to have to learn new ways of playing.

I DJ all the time, with effect. I don't know what some of you chumps are talking about. Maybe if you shut up and play you'd realize how much hot air is in your "naysaying."

Originally posted by PC
Pendragon very good points. But when you are talking about the disc jumps..

No - I was talking about skiing in general - augmented by disk jumps. You cant do it with concussion grens - unless you are ok losing your pack... even if people do find a "boost" the overall ski cap moots the whole concept of "virtual athleticism" as exemplified by T1 - PD


you forget that t2 is a new game, and because of that you are going to have to learn new ways of playing.

No - I have not forgotten that. T2 is the sequel to Tribes. My whole point is that a person of vision and insight should be able to divine the true essence of Tribes.

Dave G, in my opinion, is not a person of insight or vision and he has failed to divine the true nature of Tribes.

On the surface, Tribes was a lot like Quake - only outside, and with jetpacks. That is completely missing the heart and soul of the game. One facet of the soul of Tribes was the fact that it allowed people to move faster than other people with practice. No other game allows this - none. Quake, CS, UT - every freaking person moves at the same speed (ok, some mods have classes that have faster or slower people, but thats not my point at all)

The most creative people can get in Quake and CS is "bunny hopping" - people just jumping a lot to make it harder to hit them - it looks retarded and it lacks grace and fluidity.

Show me a person who can ski with grace and efficiency and I will show you art in motion.

I am fascinated and repulsed by those who do not grasp this.

Why is it,that all the people who say Tribes (The Original) lacks teamwork,are the ones who have never played in top 5 competitive clan matches for their area/location?
Unless you were amongst the top,skilled and co-ordinated teams towards the end of the Tribes 1 era.Were talking clans like NuTz,HT,Sticks,Vanguard,i v (though they were not top 10,they would have no doubt made it there given time),POE,GBD,Tsunami,i$, 5150,ACE (and others I may have left out).Then you cannot comment on high competition games,and what Tribes was all about.
You may have noticed,that the people who are saying they prefer T2 over Tribes,are the ones that were less skilled in T1.
Because there is that mediocre/no stand out players feel about T2,they give themselves false illusions that Nobody is more skilled than anybody else.

One thing,could we please quit using the word cowboy?
I fucking hate the word,its a word used by lazy defenders,who would rather whinge about an offending player instead of killing them and doing something to help out their team.
These are the people who whinged if an LD sniped,or 'wahh,you MA me too much',the people who were too lazy to do any proper work for their team in Tribes 1.Now find their job much easier by laying a few turrets,and standing on a hill with an overpowered laser rifle picking off enemies with their 80 ping (notice the netcode is so fucked you cant get sub 40 anymore).And believing that it actually requires skill to defend.

I played a versatile position in Tribes,I would either LD/HO/Cap/Escorter or HoF (RD or RC,hehe) depending on what my team needed to be done.
I was the kinda person to never give up a chase,if my flag was taken,I would chase the person down until they capped it,and never give up.If I was HoF I would disc jump after the person and try kill them before they could cap (stupid but fun,only on pubs mainly).If our teams capper died,I would search frantically for that dropped flag and try escort him all the way home or do an insane 'mach 5 cowboy' pickup.
I think thats what I liked so much about Tribes,the fun I had killing a capper milliseconds from his flag,or getting the tie-breaking cap within the last few seconds.
Many of you may not know of me,as I play from New Zealand,and mainly play in the australian ladder (when there used to be one :| ),but a few of you would've seen me on pickups or matches over on US servers.I played for OzzieZoo,and helped the templars with capping quite a while ago :)

One last thing,for fuck sake,give Natural a break you newbie retards.If not for clans like IE/5150/S3 Tribes would have died a long time ago,and Dynamix wouldnt have had the funding to make your precious little Shifter 2.
I could quite easily sit down with some Tacos,Drink,and a few mates and watch a demo like it was a movie.
It was amazing how drawn to it,and how impressed I was.
Hell,I'd forgotten about the demo feature until a friend brought it up last year around August and told me about the success of S3 at the time.I was beginning to get bored of Tribes and started swerving towards cs,then I watched the infamous SH and RD demos and was inspired to become what I saw in the demos.Ultimate teamwork,perfectly timed co-operation,Hitting nearly 99% of the time,and the speed of it :)
It inspired me to push myself to become better.

Since then,I have played in quite a few top clans,and played matches amongst the best of Tribes' players.And have come to love the game,and I am addicted.

Maybe many of you people who have moved on to T2 didnt get the opportunity to play amongst the best,but its the most intense,fast paced,hardcore,teamwork involved game there is once you do.
If you feel as if you didnt achieve all you could,I urge you to go back to Tribes and try to see what its like on that higher level,and to experience Tribes at its best.
In short saying,Tribes is,and will always be,the best Multi-player,Team game ever.
Anyone who disagrees has to know what its like to play Top 5 Ladder matches :P

- random

Originally posted by nolt
why is this thread on page 30?

Originally posted by trepanation
<img src ="http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/images/smilies/heart.gif" height ="400" width ="400">

<font size = "30" color ="pink"><b>Erase the hate</b></font>

Originally posted by nolt

Originally posted by R@ND0M

You may have noticed,that the people who are saying they prefer T2 over Tribes,are the ones that were less skilled in T1.
Because there is that mediocre/no stand out players feel about T2,they give themselves false illusions that Nobody is more skilled than anybody else.

- random

Yes!

There are those who are offended that ping, shot placement and combat skills actually affect the outcome of games.

Those players want to play "Virtual Tribes League" - where the object is to come up with the best strategy...

Newsflash people - in combat, strategy is less important than tactics and execution. This bothers many of you deeply - I can tell because you speak favorably about how the game has been slowed down - and you use terms like "thinking mans FPS" etc.

I used to harp on my team constantly to duel - duel duel duel.

Some people on my team resented it - and when I posted it on the forums, others resented the implication that becoming a good duelist made you a better player.

However, it was true - in T1 at least, the best teams were made of the best players - and the best players were the best killers. Yet, that faction loved to pontificate about how "the right strategy" could defeat a team of skilled but haphazard LPBs every time - of course, if they failed, it was only for lack of "the right strategy"...

Well, welcome to T2, the most advanced RTS game on the planet...

Originally posted by {CG}Pendragon
Imagine if everyone in football and basketball moved at EXACTLY THE SAME SPEED perhaps it would be more precise if every player in the sport had exactly the same top speed.

Why work out? why do sprints? why watch your weight - why improve? Once someone is a few steps ahead of you, unless they stumble, you are not going to catch them.

What you ski haters fail to see (or maybe you see it and do not value it or appreciate its intrinsic uniqueness to all FPS games) is that Tribes 1 simulated virtual athleticism.

Skiing was something that you could exercise and practice and get better at. Disc jumps allowed people to trade health for instant speed - these kinds of tactical skills and decisions elevated the skill required to play the game.

Tribes 2 does not have any such elements that I have yet been able to identify.

As someone mentioned and I have often observed, some people have this vision of team work as "everyone going in at once" - like combat is some kind of virtual pep rally where we all go to the enemy base together and then, as a team, we shoot at the other team and whatever team is still standing - well, gosh by golly, they had the better team work and they have earned the right to saunter off into the sunset with the flag...

That concept of teamwork is boring and lame and I hate it and it offends everything in me that knows what fun is.

T1 had team work, but it was about coordination and precision. You hadt o clear the flag defenses with HO, you had to put pressure on different resources, you had to repair and defend - and you had to know when to call in cappers - the defense had to know when to stay at the base and when to chase or move to assist. The game was absolutely team oriented, but everyone had a role and they were required to perform it at a very hight level as individuals or the team would suffer as a whole.

That is so, SO EXACTLY RIGHT. I want to stress a few points from good 'ol Pendragon here.

1. Why practice the way we did in Tribes 1 if there's no REAL way to improve? Skiing is a lot easier in Tribes 2, and not half as strategic as it was in Tribes 1. I'm in Vorpal Rabbits, and we have a GREAT CAPPER. His name is Bojangles, go to our site.. really, go to our site ( www.vrtribe.com ). Now, go to the downloads section. You'll see capping route demo's. Watch the Stonehenge one.. there are at least ten routes shown that bring you up to incredible speeds. Where are capping routes now?

Tons of the cappers in Tribes 1 have practiced endless hours on new routes, tricks, and ways to make them just THAT much faster and give that THAT much more of an edge. People practiced to get better in areas that are specifically filtered in Tribes 2.

2. Tribes 1 was incredibly team oriented, anyone to say it wasn't/is would have to of done some heavy crack. Tactics and timing was EVERYTHING - moreover, it's what won matches.

---------

Pendragon, you have my utmost respect. All these things you say are blatantly true. So true, so very, very true. I think the this thread could be left at the fact that Tribes 1 gameplay is very addictive, and though Tribes 2 may have lots of little toys and eyecandy effects - it doesn't meet the gameplay standards that Tribes 1 created.

Originally posted by PC
Pendragon very good points. But when you are talking about the disc jumps.. i think that maybe in a few months that t2 will have something like that. It took t1 time to find the dj and i think that it will be the same for t2. you forget that t2 is a new game, and because of that you are going to have to learn new ways of playing.

I dont understand this "wait a few months" syndrome that is going around. I mean, lets assume for a second that DJ's are not effective in T2. ( I know they are, but not as effective as in T1) Exactly where do you see this new innovation coming from? I mean, we are talking means of gaining speed and in return...catching up to a flagger. Am I wrong or is there still a speed CAP on all armors? Yes, I do think there is. Sure the dev team may have tweaked skiing a bit to give it a "faster" type of gameplay, but the reality is this...You still cannot go faster than the top speed.

So, if a capper comes in...and is movin at top speed when he grabs the flag...how do you expect to catch up to him? It doesnt matter if you find a way to rocket jump...grenade jump...or even if you find a different bug (like skiing) that allows acceleration to happen quickly. THe fact of the matter is, you cannot go any faster than what the DEV team deems the top speed.

Point is...I see this comparison of early T1 and early T2 coming up a lot...with the main point of...wait a few months like we did in T2, and the answer will show itself. Well, the only reason this argument could even remotely make sense is because we already know that there were bugs in T1 like skiing, and m/d'ing, and you guys expect the same sort of stuff to happen again. I highly doubt it will, and if it does, it will in no way be to the same extent as the bugs we found in T1. Reason? Because Dave G and the Dev team took strides to make sure this sort of thing did not upset the delicate "balance" that was originally intended for T2. There just arent that many things in the game that can be exploited, if any.

Only way I can see anything like a TRUE disc jump is if the speed cap were turned off...Ofcourse that wont happen because then we get the guys who dont like HO and they will start complaining. I just cannot understand why you guys think there will be innovations...or bug exploits in this game...that could in anyway change how a map is played. It just isnt gonna happen...and if it did...dont be surprised when it is patched out in the next patch, cuz heaven forbid, DAVE G let the actual players of the game decide how they play it...we know that doesnt work...hence the new scoring system.

Originally posted by nolt

Now for a few thoughts from HJ...

Natural: You were my Tribes hero. You were the person who I used as a benchmark in my latter half of my Tribes career when I switched from LD to capper. I respect everything you did in Tribes, and because of your skill and reputation I listen to what you say far more than the average poster, much like I would for Daunt or Bluenose, as I recognize their skill at my position. But... when you proceed to beat a long dead and oft-beaten horse, based upon 8-10 hours of post release experience, and then compare it unfavorably and nostalgicly to Tribes, I have to disagree with your stance. Two months into Tribes had nothing in common with the style of play found in the spring of 2000. Post-release Tribes was far slower in comparison than Tribes 2 vs Tribes is. I say give it time and play some scrimms or listen to a shoutcast before you pass judgement.

My Thoughts: Speed Yes, Tribes 2 is slower than Tribes. How much so? Not a great deal, but enough so that you notice it, most apparent on maps that are not exactly "skiing friendly". How much is the fault of the game and how much is a result of the map design? I'd say the greatest portion of the blame falls on map design. I know of one route on Archipelago where I never have to touch the water, but if I don't take that route, yes, it takes a while to get across the map. On Sanctuary, the map is large, there are several water filled bowls and depressions. If you do not pick the right route, yes, you will take over a minute to traverse the map. But let's compare...Damnation with Canyon Crusade. Arguably same distance apart, Damnation is probably a little further. I can get to the flag faster on Damnation than I could on Canyon Crusade. (Now, that's without the 10 second disk jump return route)

Skiing is slightly slower, but the speed/air friction cap isn't the issue. I can ski base to base in a Heavy in a lot of maps. I don't approach the ski cap except for on Quagmire. That map is very ski friendly, and I hit speeds there that I had on Rollercoaster. The problem is in the maps. You have the map editor. I know it's buggy, but you can deal, people already have.

Defense vs Offense: Tribes 2 is defensively biased. Larger maps, less ski friendly, more turrets. Tribes was offensively biased. Heavy Offense lent the offense a huge advantage over the defense. True, they have over corrected the HO, but they have also provided us with more options...the bomber and the tank, the cloak and a more effective sensor jammer pack.

But wait you say, I see all these 0-0 (or 3-5 TTF) games! I'm the only one going on offense against 15 on Defense! That's pub play. I blame that on general laziness and those newbie game guides as well as all those MA fest demos ;)

I'm always on offense on pubs because I can't stand waiting for that lone capper to come to our base so me and my 14 other buddies can pounce on him. I can cowboy a good deal even against "T1 veteran" opponents, it's a pub. Some maps I get shutdown, the defense is too tight for me to go it alone. But if I get one or two people I know to go with me, generally, we cap 9 times out of 10. (ex, Kyuss and I on Recalesence. I would sensor jam, and knock the HoF off the flag and then toss it to Kyuss who had an e pack, I would cover his escape and he would cap) Things like this prove that the defense is not God in T2. It's dominating now in the pubs, but it can be broken. In the scrimms I've played in and the matches I've shoutcasted, the scores wwere generally high, with the exception of one -K- vs Void game that finished 1-0 in favor of Void.

The defensive imbalance is a player caused phenomenon, generally relegated to pubs.

TeamWORK vs TeamPLAY: Tribes 2 is a deeper game than Tribes. I'm not knocking Tribes at all here. I loved the shit out of that game. But Tribes 2 is just so much fucking BIGGER. The maps, the bases, the vehicles are more important, and you have to cover greater distances faster in order to cap or defend. Because of this, you have more jobs like the Turret Farmer of Tribes. His was the only non combat position of Tribes. Because the areas you need to defend are larger, and the offense has tools to reduce your base and assets to rubble much faster than Tribes HO even did (Bomber, tank, 5 HO arriving at once in a Havok, etc), you need more than one repair guy/deployer. You'll need a repairer AND a deployer. You'll need a pilot, a tailgunner, a bombadier, and ANOTHER pilot for a Havok. Are these jobs as fun as say, capping? No, not to me. But is winning fun? Yes. Winning is always its own reward, just as in Tribes. Your teammates respect the fact that you're keeping all of their shit up, that you're getting them safely into the firefight. Isn't that what ladders are about? Respect and winning? In my book, winning a Tribes 2 game is that much more enjoyable because it's more like winning a football game then just winning a video game. You put more effort in, therefore the enjoyment and rewards for a win are that much greater.

So I say to you T2 nay sayers, give competition a try, go in trying to enjoy it. If you still don't like it, well, then go play Tribes and have a good time. I wish you a great time. But stop complaining about how much you hate Tribes 2, and how great Tribes 1 was, and that anyone who thinks different obviously sucked at Tribes 1. It's not true, and it's a dead horse that needs to be buried.

Pendragon> that's exactly how I feel... and what I mean by the game lacking grace and feeling like a fat man in a bulky world.

PC, you're quite optimistic when you think we'll 'find' new techniques to augment speed in a fashion similar to the DJ. I would think by now with all the experience from T1, someone would have found something?

btw, DJ's work fine, as does grenade and plasma jumping.

the DJ's aren't just the fire straight at the ground variety of Tribes, and they don't give you the huge speed boost of Tribes...but, I find them sufficient to catch most cappers.

Good point Natural, nothing has come up yet. Maybe this is where mods will come in to play - faster gameplay. Who knows.

I have spent about 4 hours just messing around with discs, mortars, and grens - trying like hell to find some trick, some boost - something - nada.

HJ - you do have a point.

In T1, the pubs used to be all offense - nobody wanted to play any real D because it was boring - and it required you to shoot people to stop them - hard because LPB status was less common back then...

Still - the magic is gone.

I get so angry and pissed off when I do go try it that I just cant stick with it.

Since I dont absolutely love the game, I cannot play competitively and I cannot lead a team - I have to run on belief and passion - I had it for T1, I have none for T2.

That - and the new house, new baby, evening job teaching = me playing lots and lots of CS these days.

I play as {CG}Pendragon if anyone ever sees me on there...

CS is unique - I am what you hoplophobes would call a "gun nut" so I find the semi realistic portrayal of firearms and small arms tactics most intrigueing....

Nat - I used to suel all the time - and I remember, one of the most enjoyable duels I ever had was against you.

I heard that T2 has a duel mod - maybe I will lurk there for a while...