[Grammar] Help settle an argument

Those spellings and punctuationers'esses be trocious n' shit

the correct sentence would be "That spelling and that punctuation are atrocious."

- "Those" is wrong. You don't say "those pencil and toothbrush are in my possession"
- "is" is wrong. Spelling and punctuation are two distinct things. They cannot be considered as one single thing. "Macaroni and cheese" is one single thing--even though you can have macaroni separate from cheese, the term "macaroni and cheese" is always considered as one "object"

the correct sentence would be "That spelling and that punctuation are atrocious."

- "Those" is wrong. You don't say "those pencil and toothbrush are in my possession"
- "is" is wrong. Spelling and punctuation are two distinct things. They cannot be considered as one single thing. "Macaroni and cheese" is one single thing--even though you can have macaroni separate from cheese, the term "macaroni and cheese" is always considered as one "object"

Agreed.

the correct use would be 'is', i don't have any proof or logical backing, it just is and if you disagree i'll fucking kill you so fuck off

however I know this is wrong, "That spelling and that punctuation are atrocious."
you're a fucking dumbass walrus

:rofl:
you apparently have no idea what you're talking about

PS - i got 3rd place in my 4th grade spelling bee
and my grammar is also unparalleled

i'm awesome... don't even try to argue with me

I'm really confused because on the first page I said twice that 2 is wrong. Now I agree with iamtehwalrus who apparently is very awesome, but fuck him anyway.

That spelling is atrocious, (and) so is the punctuation.

Sometimes I feel like TW is just a bunch of monkeys sitting at computers somewhere.

They are both incorrect.

the correct sentence would be "That spelling and that punctuation are atrocious."

- "Those" is wrong. You don't say "those pencil and toothbrush are in my possession"
- "is" is wrong. Spelling and punctuation are two distinct things. They cannot be considered as one single thing. "Macaroni and cheese" is one single thing--even though you can have macaroni separate from cheese, the term "macaroni and cheese" is always considered as one "object"

You raise a good point, but kind of contradict yourself in it.

You say that macaroni and cheese is a single object, but how often do you see "spelling and punctuation" grouped together? I'd say nearly as often, if not more.

That's the reason 'is' seems far more correct to your average English speaker.. because in the English-language psyche, it's been grouped into a single object when used like that.

Take it from Obibun, Tribalwar's resident Linguistics major.

The more you know..

This question can't be serious.

In my field (ESL) a sentence is grammatically correct if a native speaker of English would say it. As such, they are both correct.

That being said, I don't like either one of them.

no one says #2.

"Cindy, did you see Timmy's essay this week?"
"Yes Sandy. That spelling and punctuation is atrocious."

Both are somewhat lacking. "The spelling and punctuation in his essay is atrocious," would be better formed. Perhaps "That spelling and punctuation of his is atrocious," could fit as well.

#2 is just dumb and I would slap my child in the mouth if they said it. If I had a child. Probably one of the reasons I won't.

Both are mind-numbingly retarded. You wouldn't modify two nominative subjects with "that;" you would use "the." And because they are not considered one and the same, you should use "are" as opposed to "is."

As to the Macaroni and Cheese argument, go shoot yourself in the face because it is clearly singular, as it refers to a single dish/recipe, not two items.

Want credibility? I'm a News editor for Baton Rouge's weekly newspaper and I'm about to graduate as an English major from LSU next semester. Suck it.

In my field (ESL) a sentence is grammatically correct if a native speaker of English would say it.

That's a terrible standard, even though I can somewhat see the reasoning behind it.

OMG A NEWS EDITOR. EVERYONE STFD.

I don't understand where you "is" people are coming from.

Would you say "Your grammar, spelling and punctuation has improved"?

Would you say "The content and length of his essay is fine"?

i got dumber reading this thread