Shooting on VA Tech campus

most apparent crimes of passion don't end in the worst one man gun related massacre in our nation's history. It’s an unlucky year in Blacksburg if the murder rate reaches 1 much less something like this.

Blacksburg Crime Statistics (VA) - CityRating.com (http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Blacks burg&state=VA)

Oh I understand that. And culturally there are huge gaps - Australians HANDED their guns back in (not sure if there was any refund or incentive other than it would soon be illegal). I think there'd be massive public uproar if Americans were asked/told to do the same. I understand it's part of your Bill of Rights or whatnot that you can bear arms.

Whereas, funnily enough, Australia was built on crime (though not really violence) and is quite peaceful.

I am not saying there is no crime or murder, but there isn't anything on such a scale - except for once in Tasmania, all those years ago. Could it happen again? Of course it could, it could happen anywhere anytime. It just doesn't seem to happen here, but it does in the US.

Just my observation - the answer, from an Australian point of view, sure as fuck is not to arm anyone anymore than they already are. Disarming people has worked quite well, as best I can tell, in Australia. Infact, in Melbourne, it is also now (as of a year or two ago) highly illegal to own swords without proper authorisation. This was to curb knife and sword crime, which was rising. Did it work? Honestly I don't know. The have been less reports of it in the media, but we all know that means jack shit.

there was incentive. you got some money... although usually not equal to the gun value.

As to whether it worked or not... some people (usually americans who love guns) seem to like to say it hasn't. But that is bollocks. Since 96 the firearm based murders has dropped very markedly. from averaging like 70-80 (ignoring 1996 which had over 100 because of the 35 at port arthur), to being mid 40s. But that is not strickly cos of the ban, as it was already going downwards, it just accelerated. And yes that is nationwide figures... our per captia gun related homicide is a fraction of the american.

there was incentive. you got some money... although usually not equal to the gun value.

As to whether it worked or not... some people (usually americans who love guns) seem to like to say it hasn't. But that is bollocks. Since 96 the firearm based murders has dropped very markedly. from averaging like 70-80 (ignoring 1996 which had over 100 because of the 35 at port arthur), to being mid 40s. But that is not strickly cos of the ban, as it was already going downwards, it just accelerated. And yes that is nationwide figures... our per captia gun related homicide is a fraction of the american.

ok..but how much has murders in general dropped? Violent crime?

IMO Australia is proof that banning firearms DOES work, but don't tell the gun nuts I said that...

Yeah I understand somewhat, but there is just something in my personality and belief that won't ever let me accept that it just "happened" and nothing could have been done without hindsight 20/20. You would have to understand how I view things and events. You guys are probably right in that it could not have been prevented but to me, there will always be a huge doubt on how things where handled and how it could be improved. I have a different mindset then most people when it comes to most everything. When I hear about a nearby rape in a dormitory my first gut instict is not how terrible it is that it happened but how exactly it could have been prevented and what measures would prevent future events on campus since they happen about every year. Instead things proceed as normal and it is termed "freak accident" when in reality changing one or two methods could prevent it. It is possible to make smart intelligent changes that could help prevent or lessen the effects of these incidents without extreme loss of personal security.

yeah man you're totally the only person on earth who thinks "how can i solve this problem"

we're all a bunch of cro-magnons and you're definitely going to outdo us in the coming years

what the fuck is wrong with you

and by the way, what is this small change that could stop rapes from occurring, because god that would be handy. I suppose we could cut off all men's dicks

The one cool thing about all you stupid young fucks killing each other off in school is that there is less competition for the jobs of us old fucks.

BaNsHee;11416714']Interesting that there was bomb threats called in to the school before this happened. There was just a bomb threat called into UT today. First time I can ever remember that happening.

The most logical explanation for the bomb threats were for the gunamn to gauge the response times and procedure of the university police. While the dorm shooting was a diversion.

Yeah I understand somewhat, but there is just something in my personality and belief that won't ever let me accept that it just "happened" and nothing could have been done without hindsight 20/20. You would have to understand how I view things and events. You guys are probably right in that it could not have been prevented but to me, there will always be a huge doubt on how things where handled and how it could be improved. I have a different mindset then most people when it comes to most everything. When I hear about a nearby rape in a dormitory my first gut instict is not how terrible it is that it happened but how exactly it could have been prevented and what measures would prevent future events on campus since they happen about every year. Instead things proceed as normal and it is termed "freak accident" when in reality changing one or two methods could prevent it. It is possible to make smart intelligent changes that could help prevent or lessen the effects of these incidents without extreme loss of personal security.

of course we need people who think like you. It's the only way to come up with new ideas about how to do something better. Sometimes stuff just doesn't work out though.

I just found out that my old neighbor and old friend who lived next door was one of the casualties. He was in the graduate engineer program. 6 years of VT engineering just to have it end like this...



i just dont understand why :(

Quick question : Did anybody saw a whole neighboorhood completely locked down because someone killed their cheating wife ? No.

Why the hell would they have thought that the guy would go ahead and kill 30 more peoples when they first believed it was something that had to do speficically with the 2 kids killed at 7:15AM. Even if he left (which is usually what killer do), why would he have been considered as a menace for all 25k students ?

I think VA Tech did the best they could with what they had, and saddly, turns out that the kid at something in mind, that only he knew about it.

RIP though.

ok..but how much has murders in general dropped? Violent crime?

i am just saying the stats btw, i also agree that the same thing probably wouldn't work in the U.S. Or would take over a decade to enforce. But even still the mind set is totally different. So its kinda screwed.

In a follow up post a min ago someone said that burgulary was up 44%. Its the same crap that gets posted every time. That has no basis in reality. Its american gun loving magazine stat fakery as far as i can tell.

(sorry for the gifs... gov website is stupid. click the link to be able to see them clearly)

Burglary (0 to 45k)
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/facts/2005/fig031.gif
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/facts/2005/fig031.gif
Firearm related stats (1 to 700 on Y axis)
Yellow = Homicide
Cyan = Suicide
Green = Accident
Purple = Total

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/cfi/cfi066.gif
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/cfi/cfi066.gif

Plenty of things have gone down. Plenty of things have not changed in the least. But fire arm based things have gone down alot. But the main goal was to make things like the port arthur massacre hard to do. And that has been achieved. The gun was a nut job. Someone who now would really struggle to get a weapon.

:(

i wish they would release the names. The suspense is killing me. I know my professor was shotin the face...tahts all i know though. I just wanna know if hes dead or alive. The odds are that hes not alive but im still clinging to the hope that he miraculously survived that and is one of the "wounded". The sad thing is...I have a feeling I will know several more people involved in this when its all said and done.

yeah man you're totally the only person on earth who thinks "how can i solve this problem"

we're all a bunch of cro-magnons and you're definitely going to outdo us in the coming years

what the fuck is wrong with you

and by the way, what is this small change that could stop rapes from occurring, because god that would be handy. I suppose we could cut off all men's dicks

In the dormitories? Simple only allow the keycard access to open the doors by Desk Assistants, they have people who sit at a desk in each residence hall, some are 24/7 (make them all 24/7). Also a digital alert to all propped doors, they supposedly have an alarm system but it doesn't trigger sometimes and is inadequate. Right now they already have keycards and that does help, but funneling all entrances and leaving through the same door and the DA actually being alert and attentitive (take away their laptop they play on all the time). If someone suspicious or who follows in someone enters the DA simply questions them or asks who they are (they have a list of everyone in the hall). It would cost the university negligible compared to the thefts and rapes etc that happen on campus.

Also the digital system would also be minimal to make sure no doors are propped, although it would be somewhat unneeded if all traffic is funneled through the main door that the main desk is at. The system is not foolproof, a terrible DA, and someone letting a 30+ black male dressed in black could happen. But at the same time it is highly unlikely.

Note they already have Desk assistants hired and payed at all main desks (main entrances) to dorms.

The most logical explanation for the bomb threats were for the gunamn to gauge the response times and procedure of the university police. While the dorm shooting was a diversion.

If that ends up being the case..... holy shit.
There is pretty much nothing the cops could have done.

Yeah I understand somewhat, but there is just something in my personality and belief that won't ever let me accept that it just "happened" and nothing could have been done without hindsight 20/20.....

My first thoughts were that it suprised me that there were students sitting vulnerable to this in a campus building, but then I gave it some thought.

It sounds like the police were trying to track down a gunman who just killed two people, not a mass murderer. If the campus wasn't so huge it might make sense to lock everything down to catch the guy, but it's a big campus and they had no reason to believe he was setting up for a massacre. It makes perfect sense that they would assume he was on the run, not preparing to do more damage.

The officer that was at the briefing did a horrible job of explaining the response, and I can see why people would think they did everything wrong.

edit: I also got the impression that the gunman made it look like he was on the run somehow. The police havent given any detail, but they made it clear that they had information that made them believe this.

thats swell but none of those things prevent rape. They might prevent unauthorized access and will surely inconvenience the shit out of people who should have access

The most logical explanation for the bomb threats were for the gunamn to gauge the response times and procedure of the university police. While the dorm shooting was a diversion.

im not sure applying the most logical explanation to an illogical act is the best course

but i cant say i disagree with you

If that ends up being the case..... holy shit.
There is pretty much nothing the cops could have done.

Another thing I read about this whole thing that struck me was the kill to wounded ratio. This guy was skilled and thorough.

If that ends up being the case..... holy shit.
There is pretty much nothing the cops could have done.

Yeah, he wasn't 'stupid', the perp knew exactly what he was doing.