MTT strategy

I have an interesting hand in the second hour of an $11r, I have a decent stack:


PokerStars Game #6633839026: Tournament #33277642, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2006/10/14 - 18:07:26 (ET)
Table '33277642 151' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Xeli 1 (43742 in chips)
Seat 2: sbj99 (18145 in chips)
Seat 3: kri316 (16245 in chips)
Seat 4: HoneyCut (13275 in chips)
Seat 5: Saromann (15265 in chips)
Seat 6: TeamBass (4546 in chips)
Seat 7: Purr Of Aces (17335 in chips)
Seat 8: mobbyduck (6365 in chips)
Seat 9: grenat (22655 in chips)
TeamBass: posts small blind 100
Purr Of Aces: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to sbj99 [Jd Jh]
mobbyduck: folds
grenat: folds
Xeli 1: folds
sbj99: raises 400 to 600
kri316: folds
HoneyCut: calls 600
Saromann: folds
TeamBass: raises 3946 to 4546 and is all-in
Purr Of Aces: folds
sbj99: calls 3946
HoneyCut: folds
*** FLOP *** [8d 7s 9d]
*** TURN *** [8d 7s 9d] [9c]
*** RIVER *** [8d 7s 9d 9c] [4s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TeamBass: shows [Qd Ac] (a pair of Nines)
sbj99: shows [Jd Jh] (two pair, Jacks and Nines)
sbj99 collected 9892 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 9892 | Rake 0
Board [8d 7s 9d 9c 4s]
Seat 1: Xeli 1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: sbj99 showed [Jd Jh] and won (9892) with two pair, Jacks and Nines
Seat 3: kri316 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: HoneyCut folded before Flop
Seat 5: Saromann (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: TeamBass (small blind) showed [Qd Ac] and lost with a pair of Nines
Seat 7: Purr Of Aces (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: mobbyduck folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: grenat folded before Flop (didn't bet)


My thought process:

I understand that I want to isolate and get all my chips in with the best hand, which I believed I had pf. I also understand that in general, there isn't alot of respect in these games and will get called if I reraise almost as likely as he will call the original reraise. I think there's a good chance that it might be a race with HoneyCut, and that he at least has an ace. I wanted to avoid the risk of putting almost all of my chips in the pot in a coinflip situation, if an ace flops I still bet 3k-4k, and can get away if he comes over the top. If no ace flops I just push- and I might still get a call if he missed his ax kq etc...I also might get a call from a lower pp. If he hits a set I'll just accept it as a bad beat.

In other words I try to protect my tourney life rather than making a big gamble this early in the tourney. If I know HoneyCut is solid I would have reraised all in pf since he only called the original raise and will probably lay down.

Anyone see a major flaw in this play?

i disagree that he will call off his tournament life w/ the same range of hands that he'll call the 4k with. off the top of my head...hands he might call 4k with but fold to the allin... qjs/kqs-ish hands, pp 77-tt, aj/aq... not sure if he folds aq to a push or not though. ppl are often in gamble mode after the break and i could even see something as weak as t9s calling the 4k.

based on this your logic seems somewhat backwards to me. there is no reason to believe he'll have ak here and that he's ready to flip for his tournament life. calling seems like the much riskier play, and if you really wanted to preserve your tournament life you'd move in, as he's calling off an extra 13k pretty infrequently.

w/ aa we would just flatcall to try and suck him in but jj is too weak for this imo. i would just move in. i think you're more likely to get a call pf for the 4k from hands you want to fold (aj, kq, qj, aq) than you are to get a call from hands you want to call (lower pocket pairs). and lower pocket pairs will give you almost nothing postflop unless they set, whereas if a queen flops you have to play a guessing game whether or not your jacks are good and possibly pay him off.

also postflop if an ace flops i dont know why you would bet 4k when he only has 8k behind. hes unlikely to get bluffy in this spot w/ an allin guy to deal with... i would prob just c/f if an ace comes. k/q maybe bet/fold... i dono, depends on the texture of the flop and your read of the player

i forgot to mention you are out of position postflop which is another reason to move in

You're assuming he won't risk all of his chips with 77-tt, aj, aq? Have you played these before? :P That's the whole reason I played it like that, so many players will just gamble- even with a qk or 55, seriously. I didn't put him on ak but easily A7 type hand. And the dilemna this presents is that I have the best hand so I would naturally want to move in pf- but how much is protecting tourney life worth at this point, in other words against alot fo players I can play it just like that and still get all of his chips after the flop with not much to gain by pushing pf. Again, I'm not assuming he's a solid player which is an assumption you seem to be making.

Anyway, post-flop my bet of 3-4k leaves him with about 5k more. He can get away from the hand with about 8500 here. Correct me if wrong, but position doesn't really matter much with the third player all in. When I bet the flop he has to assume I have something.

edit: but the more I think about it, the more I agree with you. I think I had enough edge pf to make the push and risk a bad beat. The only difference is whether the push accomplishes anything at all, against some players it will, but what percentage of players?

you seem to be contradicting yourself. will you get all his chips after the flop w/ 77? or when you bet will he assume you have something? i think its optimistic to say lower pps will stack off postflop. there are a ton of ugly flops for them, and like you said when you bet he'll have to assume you have something.

if you think hell risk everything with 77-tt/aj/aq then of course u push. so many flops will kill your action... aj will fold when low cards come, pps will fold when high ones come. i think its a bad assumption to say that you can get his chips anyway being oop and not knowing which flops are good for you and which ones are good for him and which ones hes willing to felt on w/ weaker hands. basically w/ position he can play perfectly... thats not to say he will, but since your hand is exactly what it is its almost hard for him not to.

also how could position not matter. what if the flop comes akx, what do you do? kqx? a87? there are so many flops that are iffy for jj. do u bet out 3k on a k-hi flop? how can you fold for 5k more into a nearly 20k pot?

i think a lot of good players are capable with flatcalling aa-qq there since there are so many squeezing opportunities behind, so i think calling is probably best at a tough table.

if they're not capable of that, i think i like your logic... sort of a stop n go play vs. ak, which probably isnt folding to an allin but if you can deny them the last two cards you should. plus if you stop n go a rag flop tt-99 might call you. however ak will probably not flatcall pf anyway so thats kinda a moot point.