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creative 09-02-2006, 07:07 PM PokerStars Game #6146794686: Tournament #30629081, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level XVIII (6000/12000) - 2006/09/02 - 20:00:02 (ET)
Table '30629081 120' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: bet somethin (130524 in chips)
Seat 3: MarylandMike (239261 in chips)
Seat 4: creat!ve (136205 in chips)
Seat 5: gammbbler (187105 in chips)
Seat 6: MagicNetOp (145325 in chips)
Seat 7: OmahaJones6 (461623 in chips)
Seat 8: 22bulldawg22 (200960 in chips)
Seat 9: Pegase_75 (301997 in chips)
bet somethin: posts the ante 600
MarylandMike: posts the ante 600
creat!ve: posts the ante 600
gammbbler: posts the ante 600
MagicNetOp: posts the ante 600
OmahaJones6: posts the ante 600
22bulldawg22: posts the ante 600
Pegase_75: posts the ante 600
MarylandMike: posts small blind 6000
creat!ve: posts big blind 12000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to creat!ve [Ks Qs]
gammbbler: folds
MagicNetOp: folds
OmahaJones6: raises 12000 to 24000
22bulldawg22: folds
Pegase_75: calls 24000
bet somethin: folds
MarylandMike: calls 18000
creat!ve: raises 111605 to 135605 and is all-in
Seat 9: Pegase_75 folded before Flop
whats your line here? call check/fold or push like me
Hilikus 09-02-2006, 09:23 PM the more i think about it the more im liking the push, depending on the opener's history of straddling. he's the only one you really have to worry about, and your raise represents a significant part of his stack, limiting his calling range to probably JJ/QQ+ and AK. if you take the pot down preflop, you stand to increase your stack by about 55% of what it is before the call, and if you do get called, your hand can certainly catch something.
but all of that can go out the window based on the table situation (where bubble is, how players see you, how the original raiser plays)
d0ggy 09-02-2006, 10:24 PM I love reading these posts, but the 1 thing i really hate is that no one ever tells what happends. I wanna know if you folded, call, and what hit. Why doesnt anyone ever post that.
Snaps 09-02-2006, 11:17 PM Because then it justifies or influences your responce to the question. I can understand giving the answer later in the thread, but not in the original post.
cacophobia 09-02-2006, 11:57 PM easy call imo. i cant see you having hardly any folding equity at all, and you def. need to fold small/med pairs and AJish hands a ton of the time to make pushing preferable to calling.
Hilikus 09-03-2006, 02:45 AM easy call imo. i cant see you having hardly any folding equity at all, and you def. need to fold small/med pairs and AJish hands a ton of the time to make pushing preferable to calling.
why cant you see fold equity from a mp straddle and a couple flat calls
cacophobia 09-03-2006, 04:34 PM because youre in the pot with the two biggest stacks at the table and they're getting vry compelling odds to call your all-in... not to mention they think we might make this move w/ a wide range to pick up the dead $$... unless uve seen them minraise / call a minraise with crap like K8o here i would call
Hilikus 09-03-2006, 08:58 PM the overwhelming amount of players at the $5 freezeout level tend to focus on relative stack position as opposed to odds-based calls
Capaholic 09-03-2006, 10:52 PM I agree with Caco, call and evaluate flop...There is 200K in pot, and it is 135K to call..if big stack decides he wants to coin flip you and calls, you know you're behind(he might think you have AK or AQ, and call with his pair, or have A8-A10, and figure you have a smaller pair...either way you're behind)
1)Any hand that calls you is ahead of you..you're putting your tournament on the line when you know you're behind...
2)You know he isnt click raising with AK and probably not AQ in MP. You can probably assume both your cards are live with regards to any Ax hand.
3)You can probably assume calls are hands like 44, Ax, KJ,89s, etc.
I just don't see the fold equity here...you have a great drawing hand,so take a cheap flop and draw to it. I think you have plenty of time to find a better spot to shove your chips in, and no matter what the flop is, you should have an easy decision.
If you were terminally short stacked, it's a different situation.
As dumb as it is to click raise with it, you also have to think about the original raiser..is the click raise something you haven't seen yet? What are the chances he is doing it with AA to get a bad call from someone? I just get bad vibes from a raise like that if it is from someone who normally is 3-5X the BB.
The only benefit I see to the push is that you take your position out of play, but like I said, you are going to know where you are on the flop regardless, so I would call this all day long and see the flop.
cacophobia 09-04-2006, 12:28 AM you dont have to know any math to look at the pot and see a bunch of money in there...
also i disagree that you can rule out any top hands, aa-qq/ak/aq are still candidates here i think... thats why its even more clear of a call to me
Hilikus 09-06-2006, 06:16 AM well I'd be pushing only if i've seen the the bigstack make laydowns when he's straddled before and that he doesn't take unnecessary gambles (calling all ins with KJ, shit like that)
lowracks 09-12-2006, 05:53 PM so, what happened?
creative 09-12-2006, 07:17 PM after i pushed he called and flipped aa
shit happens
it was a bad move by me
lowracks 09-13-2006, 04:28 PM hindsight is 20/20. dont beat yourself up.
lowracks 09-13-2006, 08:57 PM btw - how much did you cash on that tourney?
Capaholic 09-16-2006, 07:45 PM was he clickraising alot? it always looks suspicious to me if a typically strong, solid player who always raises 3-5x when he enters, just all of a sudden click raises.(especially in early or middle pos)
cacophobia 09-22-2006, 03:41 AM i should like to think that your foresight can be as clear as your hindsight
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