PU Tonight (Mappack Testing)

whats the PW

MoFo Mirror :D

here is a mappack for the pickup tonight:
VMtestPickup.02252005.rar (http://server.themofoclan.com/downloads/tribesv/maps/VMtestPickup.02252005.rar )
VMtestPickup.02252005.zip (http://server.themofoclan.com/downloads/tribesv/maps/VMtestPickup.02252005.zip )

here are the individual maps
http://server.themofoclan.com/downloads/tribesv/maps/CanyonCrusadeVM.zip
http://server.themofoclan.com/downloads/tribesv/maps/EmeraldVM.zip
http://server.themofoclan.com/downloads/tribesv/maps/FeignedBeliefsVM.zip
http://server.themofoclan.com/downloads/tribesv/maps/MesaVM.zip
http://server.themofoclan.com/downloads/tribesv/maps/SabbathVM.zip
http://server.themofoclan.com/downloads/tribesv/maps/SpiridianVM.zip
http://server.themofoclan.com/downloads/tribesv/maps/WinterlakeVM.zip

GUYS WHATS THE PASSWORD!

:flame:

um guys I don't know how to use this irc bullshit! Why not just give us the password here!!!!!!!!!!!

gEISS, those tuffs of grass on Feign .. they have to go. FPS killers. or something. I dunno.

Thoughts on the maps I got to play tonight:

Feigned Beliefs. Lag-o-rama. It eventually did smooth out, but at the beginning, it was really harsh. Neither sensors worked. My biggest issue with T:V gameplay is lack of any feeling of map direction on bigger maps. FB exasperates this issue by being murky, dark, foggy and the ground is too monochromatic. The ground texture is just endless green. Since there are no real landmarks to reference, and the ones that are there dissapear in the dark fog, it's very hard to know exactly where to go, especially when the flags are off the flagstand. One suggestion is to add dirt trails leading to/from bases, and flagstands, sensors, etc. Otherwise, it played ok.

Spidirian. The solar panels set up on top of hte base to control the shields on the sides is at least an attempt to solve something that's this map's biggest problem - either it's too much HO - or too little. The No Rape version is great for the players that cap, or chase, but for HOs, it sucks. Nothing to really blow up. No real reason for anyone to try and protect the base. The retail map draws too many complaints about base raping by the whiners that can't get out of the base and actually learn to duel HOs. Perhaps instead of solar panels on top of the base - put a gen object in the ground base that controls the shields - perhaps cut a hole in the floor and drop it there so a HO actually has to get inside to put a mortar on it. Shrug.

Balanced Winterlake - meh, it's ok, but I never really had any issues with the retail map.

Emerald - see Winterlake.

I think the other map I saw was mesa - floating flagstands, separate base that has shields on the entrance controlled by a generator "box"...the overall idea for the map is ok - but I had a real issue with the design of the gens. It's not marked as a gen, you have no idea what it is. It's simply a box. And you can toss as many mortars and grenades at it, and the gens don't go down - UNLESS to manage to drop a mortar right on the top. That sucks. The map terrain is also extremely boring. Endless brown everywhere. That map screams for some crumbling building objects, scattered around, similar to Junk. Maybe a bridge or two. Except for that the map is ok.

Lastly, Sabbath. That map is....unique...but I don't see how anyone would actually enjoy playing it. It's way too big. Four Rovers? I didn't get a lot of time to spend on it, had to take off, but from what I saw it's not spongeworthy at all. Reminded me of Recalecense from T2.
It seemed more of an exercise in making something interesting rather than considering how it will play. I think flag chasers and cappers will hate it, because of the distances they'd have to travel.

That's all I got to take a look at.

Lastly, Sabbath. That map is....unique...but I don't see how anyone would actually enjoy playing it. It's way too big. Four Rovers? I didn't get a lot of time to spend on it, had to take off, but from what I saw it's not spongeworthy at all. Reminded me of Recalecense from T2.
It seemed more of an exercise in making something interesting rather than considering how it will play. I think flag chasers and cappers will hate it, because of the distances they'd have to travel.


Hehe, that's actually great feedback, Gand.
When I first started this map, I knew some people weren't going to like it. Others would seriously dig it. It is designed to be interesting and challanging and basicly aimed at being a large pub map. A play ground.
I'm amazed that some competitive people have expressed interest.

Try having some fun with the map. Grab one of those rovers 'n go for a drive. Try running it in fuel. Get some buds together to goof off and rover race. Make sure you man the mortar turrets and have some fun with the racers ;)
(BTW, I wanted to get a game type in there to support it, but that's still a work in progress.)

I'm gonna take a shot at something more aimed at match play next. If you'd like to make general suggestions, fire away. I've already desided on smallish, mirrored, and fast paced, but not simple to cap on.

I wanna see capping heros, not flag stadoffs!!

It was meant to be constructive feedback.

I'm sure you understand - I play competitively. Any examination I have of a map (beyond simple issues like lag, bugs, etc) are all geared towards serious competition. I didn't see (as you guessed) that your map provided anything towards that end. It might be a "fun" map to goof off in, but for ladder play, or semi serious pub play, I just don't see how it would work.

My suggestion? Remake Midnight Mayhem. Not a carbon copy map, but one that has similar bases, and gameplay. It meets your criteria of a map that doesn't have wide open flags to grab. It's actually one of my favorite T1 maps, and could quite possibly (with the grappler involved) be a kick ass T:V map.

Just needs a map maker to execute it properly.

yea, the main issue with this map pack is focusing the maps on a competition setting, then pubbing. competition is what needs to be un-stagnated, to make up a word for it, and that's our aim.

im currently trying to fix up a few of the problems from last night, and reuploading maps. later on today i'm gonna remove the password from solaris and have it JUST on a rotation of vm maps. obviously, i'll have links to the downloads. it might have to wait until tonight when i get home from work however, as i have to leave in like 40 minutes :(


thanks for the replys gandalf. see, work has been done ;)

Se, I dissagree slightly with Geiss here.
I think Pubs really have to be taken care of first. There has to be some more interesting maps that nubs can play with the bigger dogs and not get quite so badly owned AND have fun.
That would help provide a future playerbase for better/more active ladders.

BTW, I have a good feeling so far about this comp targeted map I've been toying with. Looks like it should be a sweet deal. ;)

Sorry tho, I'm not gonna be doing any re-makes. There's other folks that are interested in that... I'll let 'em do the conversions while I play with new stuff.

Whats up with yall. Before we complain that maps and bases are too small and now that we got large map yall don't like it. Sheeesh. I like that u can get lost in the base u have to memorize the base like in T2 which gives an edge over new comers.

My only problem with Sabbath is that it needs 32 people or else the field looks a bit....empty. Feign and Spiridian are fun and intense cause they're small.

Now the cappers got a distance to travel it will make it funner to chase. In Emerald. a capper only needs 2 fly once at the least to get back to his/her flag.

So ppl hate this map and love. I think Katabatic has just been reborn.

Sabbath just tries to do too much. 4 rovers per side? I'm with Gandalf, seems more like a test map for cool stuff to put into other maps, than a really playagle map. You have some ideas that are good, but the implementation is overdone. The map has zero playability. I'm not just speaking from my one experiance with the map last night. We played this map a few weeks ago in a BEML pickup 8 v 8 and it's just too much map.

On feigned beliefs, my FPS were crippled. I went from an average of 45-50 frames to 20-25 frames, even when I wasn't around action. Neither team's sensor worked. Also it was extremely easy to get lost. At least twice, I wound up at the wrong flag stand, and several of my team mates were having a much harder time than that. I usually load maps quickly, but the first time I went to load the map I timed out. I attributed this to that ppl were likely downloading the map and lagging the server.

Canyon Crusade seemed to play ok. Seems like a emerald knock off tho, as far as game play. Nice to finially see a map that doesnt' seem to put a tree right in the middle of a good ski route seemingly on purpose. I feel like it could stand to be a bit larger tho.

Other than that I really didn't get to play any of the other maps. The extra spawn points on emerald are nice, but it never was a problem really. As long as you leave the pod out of Rain Dance, I'll be happy.

Feign still takes a long while to load and seems to have memory issues. Its less than the last version but something is still up.

Interesting idea on Spiridian. There are some collision issues with the solar gens. Shots go through it and at certain angles it vanishes. The whole solar panel is not recognized as a gen making it more difficult to repair. Placing a repair turret does not reach either gen even though its within range. I dunno how much its gonna change Spiridan cept for one heavy going up top in the middle to spam solar panels and anyone trying to repair. They are pretty easy to hit. Maybe more shields on them as a light can still take them down fast.

Canyoncrusade the repair station for Imperial is a little high on the pole so you have to jump to get it. Funny looking.

I like VM-Winterlake. Seems a little brighter than normal. But I like the use of new textures on the bases and I think it balances things better.

Condemnation still has a bunch of floating trees.

I'd also like to see MP-Junk with the Phoenix tube lined up with the middle of the base just like it is on the Imperial side.

gripes follow

feignedbeliefs - what the fuck is with this map? needs SERIOUS optimization.

emerald - maybe drop the rovers?

mesa - some other variety of power (dunno what really...)

spiridian - don't know what can ultimately be done about this. the map seems doomed to failure, probably best to remove it...

canyon crusdae - fix the scale. still.

sabbath - ... "A" for effort, but remove it.

My 2 cents:

Feigned Beliefs - same as others - long load time and fps was fuxored at the start. After that it played great. I really like this map so I hope it can be optimized.

Emerald - Release it. Extra spawn points help.

Winterlake - much easier to rape the Phoenix side now, the balance is definitely better. Though it's still going to be hard to break a turtle on that map. My thought has always been that there should be an exterior solar panel (maybe kinda like the outside gen's on Rollercoaster) that brings down the energy barrier on the back door so if you get that down you can go in either door. No offense but the new bases are pretty ugly.

Mesa - the big generator is lame and it was next to impossible to kill it. Mortars fly right through it and so do players. I'd recommend a small building with an open door and a "traditional" generator. Otherwise it has potential, though it also suffers from too little terrain detail giving you that "floaty" effect when skiing.

Spiridian - I like the changes but I'd recommend a small wall in front of the panels so you have to get above, or at least near, them to kill them. I stood up there in juggie with rep pack and a repair station and kept the gens up pretty much constantly.

Canyon Crusade - I like the repair pack down closer, but yes like everybody else I think it still needs to be scaled up more.

Sabbath - I don't see this as a competition CTF map. It's fun as hell to pub on and rover race, which I think is what Bit made it for.

Midnight Mayhem Deluxe -- heh j/k. Yes somebody should do this remake!! FishStix, are you listening?

Good work so far Geiss, and thanks for the PU.

Whats up with yall. Before we complain that maps and bases are too small and now that we got large map yall don't like it. Sheeesh. I like that u can get lost in the base u have to memorize the base like in T2 which gives an edge over new comers.

My only problem with Sabbath is that it needs 32 people or else the field looks a bit....empty. Feign and Spiridian are fun and intense cause they're small.

Now the cappers got a distance to travel it will make it funner to chase. In Emerald. a capper only needs 2 fly once at the least to get back to his/her flag.

So ppl hate this map and love. I think Katabatic has just been reborn.

As it stands - servers can NOT have a player limit size beyond 24, so maps that are that big are a waste of time. Without a patch addressing the server bandwidth issues or whatever is wrong with it when you have more than 24 players, big maps just won't be played. The biggest of the retail maps (like Utopia, Winterlake, Junk, etc) all play fine with 20-24 players. I'd say that Sabbath feels at least twice as big as Winterlake. That's a lot of "empty" (as you said) space for 22-24 players.

In T2 one of the biggest maps was Reversion - at about 1400M flag-flag. Almost the entire map wasn't used, as the action was generally contained within each base area. If you use ascii to diagram the action, it would be something like this:

[ Side 1 action ] ------------------------------ [ Side 2 action ]
.......................|<------Wasted Space-------->|
|<----------------------Length of map------------------------>|

Simply making the map shorter won't really change gameplay:

[ Side 1 action ] ----- [ Side 2 action ]
|<---------- New map size---------->|

Except it would promote gameplay in the middle that was formerly wasted space.

Maps don't have to be as small as Emerald - Emerald was designed for 8 players a side (that's why there was a spawn point issue in the first place). But the design of hte map - including size, and assets, base distance, flag distance, all are a factor that needs to be considered. Just being big for big's sake doesn't make it a "good map" when the server can't handle enough players to utilize that space.

I was thinking - Sabbath gave me an idea. If someone could come up with a mutator/mod that provided a starting line, finish line, lap counter, etc for a rover racing mod, that would kick serious ass. Map makers could design courses, and it could be either 1-2 person teams (a driver and/or gunner) for either simple motocross racing, drag racing, combat racing, etc.

That would be some serious funnage. Screw ball, or the other game types the devs included. Baja style racing would kick all of them to the curb.

Beware your own advice, Gandalf... a difficult secondary objective like a holed gen on Spiridian would immediately open up the possibility of raping the other team, taking down your own gens long enough to let a capper through the FF, and repairing them and running 3 HD at the gen 6 HO for supression and the capper inside the FF for the rest of the game.

In any case I guess I'm one of the [few?] people who likes Spiridian the way it is (in competition).