T:V the tribes killer

thats the "novelty album piracy" argument. i wouldn't have bought d3. however, since it was "available" at the "store", i "did buy it"

Doom3 was(is) an absolutely horrible game/engine.

Tribes 1 died.

Tribes 2 died.

T:V didn't kill tribes, it failed to revitalize it.

if anything is "destroying" tribes (and not only tribes), it's the mass consumption of console based systems, games and associated depth (or lack there of) found (or not found) in such.. vug isn't interested in marketing pc games anymore, the convenience of the console era has consumed the majority of marketing campaigns and produced countless numbers of poorly produced titles.. tribes isn't a game, hell it's not even tribes.. it's just a unit when it comes to money and if push doesn't come to shove then what's the point.. if tv was a console game it would have outsold itself by ten.. though it would be seriously dulled down and once again high numbers != good game but it makes a cash crop..

there's a complete lack of foresight and hindsight when it comes to vengeance, looking back at prior tribes titles is proof what a talented community can produce ontop of official release and people are already starting to make changes and new large maps.. and who honestly gives a shazbot how many players are online at one time.. are you going to play with ~900 people at once? so long as you can join a game then there's fun to be had

as for the common t1/t2 elitist/fascist, they're merely trying to install some division amongst those who's opinions of the game dont match their own, perhaps with the hope of reassuring themselves that their own ideals and home made nostalgia isn't all just a load of shazbot they probably never lived, counterproductive yes.. but they really don't have anyones best interest at heart, in particular their own

we should all be thankful there's 3 versions of the game for us to play now.. so play your flavour or stfu

Tribes 1 died.

Tribes 2 died.

T:V didn't kill tribes, it failed to revitalize it.

Much better said Fool. Thx. :bigthumb:

Tribes 1 died.

Tribes 2 died.

T:V didn't kill tribes, it failed to revitalize it.

Wow. Good summation. That's really a fair statment, that can't be argued with.

The question then becomes given the niche market that Tribes has always had plus the big titles all over the place, COULD T:V have revitalozed Tribes?

Even with a "perfect" version of Tribes, I kinda sorta doubt it.

Fool has been spot on in his analysis of T:V.

I think that's accurate. While you can say that T1 definitely died, as did T2, it's player numbers during its death were comparable to other "dead" games. Unreal Tournament for example.

You can't blame the community numbers of active players for not adopting T:V, something else is at work, other games have been able to grow their brand bases.

I think like we all sort of feel, brand identity in tribes is just so fragmented, no one knows what it means anymore or how to expand it and grow it. That would be my grand summary.

While some aspects of T:V brought T1 and T2 back together the "nice way", common features, some new items bridging the community gap, for some reason that wasn't enough to spike interest in the community base nor general gaming community.

Blame it on the game or blame it on ads, what have you, it was a modern cause, not one from the past.

(so yeah i'm just repackaging what fool said. damnit.)

Tribes 1 died.

Tribes 2 died.

T:V didn't kill tribes, it failed to revitalize it.

Agreed good summation. I do however, disagree with some of you that say T.V or any Tribes game made right (the base game out of the box) still wouldnt pull bigger numbers.

I think Tribes biggest failure as a franchise is that both new implemetations in the series (T2 and T.V) make the mistake of trying to change too many core attributes of the game, not giving it a refined look and bad marketing.

I have friends that avidly play games like CS, Far Cry, BF 1942. They always jump into tribes now and then because in their words (its fun). But they dont stay with the game, because T1 and even T2 are a bit aged now, and of course its just natural that folks do the bandwagon thing and figure "hey everyone plays CS I should play CS".

When I've had some of them jump in and play T.V. they like the tribes feel, but immediately mention things like: "This game is so cheesy" and "why cant I snipe that guy in the distance", and so forth. Tribes would grab a lot more peeps and bring back those who left if the base game out of the box was true to Tribes without having to wait for mods, and a more refined, edgy look.

I hope those who are less than thrilled by T:V understand that the people who like it generally don't think it's perfect by any stretch. It needs refinement, especially in mapping (IMHO). What the fans are hoping for is that Irrational will not be turned off by all the bashing and continue to refine elements AND that modders will become more and more active.

It might seem strange to release something that is fundmentally "unfinished" but then again, I see it more as buying a lisence to play and develop content based on a seed product.

This angle has been sucsessful in the past. I'd point at Never Winter Nights as an example. When released it was basicly a sub-par role single player roleplaying game with a perty soft release. After several months it dominated on-line gaming with the single most active community (topping TW for that title), major single player moduals, on line Persistant Worlds (much like MMORPG's without the pay to play aspect), and massive amounts of extra content. It was also the only RPG to breach the top 5 Game Spy players list. All this came from Dev and Fan love.

If it worked there, it can happen here.

I vote for edgy. in a non-cheesy way. good point by b-man.

t1 had edginess in that its weapons were menacing if used tactically or by skillful people.

the t1 sniper rifle had a very nice range and immediacy to it that you would expect from a sniper rifle. modern sniper rifles in our times can hit targets miles apart and in t:v land, it goes the distance of 2-3 city blocks. same with the mortar. how does a mortar explode in midair with a max distance? in t1, used from high ground, the mortar was an extremely powerful tactical technique, forcing defense to stretch out to stop its spam.

unfortunately the map were designed around relatively small ranges for the weapons, thus you can't change their behavior without a map redesign.

also, the cartoony look hurts the game imo. no modern popular fps supports it, and it seems a somewhat random design decision to aim for the cartoony look when first person shooters rarely try to invoke that. i can't think of ANY fps game that wants to be a cartoon. hl2/d3/sof2/cs all aim for realism. if you just changed the faces and explosions and weapon firing in t:v to look more real you probably would a lot more interest from general gaming populace since it would be more visually appealing. everything else has a nice detail about it that can be construed as realism, albeit a more vivid interpretation than usual. other items like the tank and rover would be harder to make look more real since it would involve altering their physics behavior and models. they just feel like a cartoon. a fun cartoon to me, but i can understand a lack of interest from the typical american consumer.

Tribes 1 died.

Tribes 2 died.

T:V didn't kill tribes, it failed to revitalize it.

"Tribes 1 died"........... I dont Think So!
"Tribes 2 died"........... I dont Think So!

"T:V didn't kill tribes, it failed to revitalize it"

TV committed suicide muhahahahahaha

"Tribes 1 died"........... I dont Think So!
"Tribes 2 died"........... I dont Think So!

Yeah, keep saying those two over and over in your head...

What the fans are hoping for is that Irrational will not be turned off by all the bashing and continue to refine elements AND that modders will become more and more active.

I don't know why you think you'll get more patches. I'm betting the line this next patch will be the last you see.

As to your "unfinished" comments, it happens quite frequently, but Thrax insisted that would not be the case here. Of all the games to come out, this one could LEAST afford to come out unfinished, when considering the stupidity of their release schedule.

Maybe if there is a next title- which I doubt- the next producer will be a little less smarmy and a bit more attentive to the established fanbase.

Wow... we finally manage to agree on something.

I think Thrax showed himself to be a less than steller producer in several ways.

As for why I think there will be more patches... well, I'm hoping that the Irrational guys are that kind of Dev group and they they have love for their work.

I guess we'll see.

The whole organization behind T:V being created and marketed is the real reason for the failure. The game was created in 2 years development time, that is far less than I would expect of a stellar single + multiplayer game. Especially considering that the dev team had to understand the Tribes world first.

I don't think the dev team is to blame but VUG for putting such crappy demands and timelines for the game. T:V didn't have a chance of being a great game with thoughtout concepts. And we all can agree that it takes a lot of thinking and balancing to get Tribes right.

Since my opinion matters so very much, I loved T2 and literally am bored to death in T:V. Boredom can kill a game too.

I know it’s sad but that pretty much sums up why T:V could be the end of the line for tribes once and for all.

- T1 was revolutionary and kicked ass but even as a game in its infancy, had more depth than T:V.

- T2 added to this and evolved the game even farther. If the initial release was a Non-UE version of classic we wouldn’t have had a small minority of players staging the biggest “whine-fest” ever seen in the history of online gaming, but we did.

- Thus T:V is (an attempt to be) T1 with better graphics, a lack of decent maps and vehicles that do nothing but shoot. oh yah, and a grapple.  the one solitary step in the right direction.

To sum it up for the classroom: Two steps forward, One step back, which back brings us back to square One Jack.

* * * * *

Personally I think/know the whole “Make it like T1 and also easy for idjit’s” line of thinking is what did the franchise in. Hopefully someday the ball (assuming it still has some bounce left in it) will be placed in the hands of a company that believes their fan-base is intelligent enough to take on a version with greater depth rather than significantly less.

PC Gamers in general are smarter than console gamers and demand more. Especially tribes fans, many of which liked the game BECAUSE it was teched out.

This seemed obvious to me well prior to the games release. Hopefully it will be as equally obvious to any future developers in hindsight.

I also know I speak for the masses.

Not only did my tribe that used to easily field 16-man teams throw in the towel because the game was old before it came out, but the vast majority of people that bought the game did as well.

Thus any word of mouth that exists serves to hinder sales rather than bolster them, and more people playing online MS Hearts than T:V.

The very nature of tribes is teched out and MUST continually evolve. To regress and idiotically tamper with that vision is to fail. Both the fans… and the Corporate Exec$.

Sorry T1 guys but these are the people that make up the bulk of the fan-base, they just don’t shout or whore the forums as much.

I personally find people whining for a more complex game to be slightly odd. Take note I never played T1 so I have no idea what that is like. But in T2 everyone would just do pretty much the same thing people in TV do: just go for the objective (depending on the person, flag or points). I never saw anyone using the highly advanced CC. I used it but whenever I would becon a meet or bomb point or whatever, everyone would just stare back blankly instead of VCAing to get the becon up in their HUD.
The laser wasnt just for much except for jacking off with and occasionally painting a target for their heavy friend. The only time I ever saw deployable sensors was:
1. I deployed them
2. The admin in a practiceCTF loaded them in
3. They were junk around the flag.
Point is, the devs probably saw all these people neglecting this advanced stuff and said, "Hmmmmm...we dont need all this stuff, noone ever uses it."

I don't get why so many people compare T:V to T1. It may have fast skiing, but it's a totally different (Tribes) game.

I personally find people whining for a more complex game to be slightly odd. Take note I never played T1 so I have no idea what that is like. But in T2 everyone would just do pretty much the same thing people in TV do: just go for the objective (depending on the person, flag or points). I never saw anyone using the highly advanced CC. I used it but whenever I would becon a meet or bomb point or whatever, everyone would just stare back blankly instead of VCAing to get the becon up in their HUD.
The laser wasnt just for much except for jacking off with and occasionally painting a target for their heavy friend. The only time I ever saw deployable sensors was:
1. I deployed them
2. The admin in a practiceCTF loaded them in
3. They were junk around the flag.
Point is, the devs probably saw all these people neglecting this advanced stuff and said, "Hmmmmm...we dont need all this stuff, noone ever uses it."

Quit whining about people whining. This was my first post since the game came out and as a fan and player from the beginning I think im entitled to voice my opinion at least once.

In resply to your whine though. Do you really think the only things they took out were the command screen and the spider clamp turret??? Time to go back and look again and YES in matches the two things you mentioned were used extensively.

As a capper that command screen was my link to what the team was doing and I used every button on the thing constantly. Pilots, captains and engineer's, if they strove to be better than the rest, did as well.

This game may suit you but the server numbers suggest you are in the minority my friend. I'm not being defensive or offensive when I say this either but stating it as a matter of fact.

For turret monkeys being able to be creative with your defense and come up with new tactics was what gave the game life and staved off monotony. One of my best friends lived for making a wicked sensor-net and I will tell you, it made a WORLD of difference. To him this game has no place at all and he like myself loved tribes above all other games.

Every thing you knock I will easily counter-knock and the success of T:V will back my words.

If a slimmed down version is what some people want that is an easy thing to do once you can offer the rest of the people what they expect of the successor to T2.

so far t:v isnt that successful... so i'd refrain from using that as an arguing point. however, i agree with the fact that all the stuff shouldnt have been taken out. i miss the shocklance, i miss the lock on missile launchers, i miss the different turrets and sensors and what not. not much we can do though...