Remember when coke changed it's formula?

AIM's up

So, instead of introducing a stable platform of 900 parts with capability to sustain many more parts and elements, they should throw caution to the wind and risk an unstable platform with 2000 parts? Sounds like bad business practices to me.

All games have boundaries, period. The Torque engine circumvented this by introducing a method to make a heightmap tile and keep its collision properties. However, beyond a certain point in the map you couldn't place anything.

The game environments on the Vengeance engine can be as large as one could ever possibly need.

Caution to the wind?
Its not like they were doing something innovative that had not been done before. They were just following the path that GG defined so well. IG didn't add anything new to the game, unless you think the grappler is something new.

We're not speaking of "all game". We are talking tribes and what makes Tribes the greatest game ever made.

I bought T2 when it came out and it didn't work for about two months. So I'm the definition of a chump. Paid for nothing.

And if you keep accepting a bunch of random features with no additional thought or balancing, chances are it's not even a playable game what you get next time.

Spoken like someone who gets owned in T2.
Features are never useless. Maybe to one person, but one person does not make the game. There are more true Tribers still waiting to buy what they expect in the next Tribes installment than there are T:V'ers. The proof is in the number sold, and number of players on mp. Delude urself if you'd like.

Bottom line is, I paid less for T2 for more features than T:V is asking for less features. If you support and allow this trend to continue, don't be surprised if next time you receive even less at an even greater charg
It called being a responsible consumer and not a chump.

An argument begins to fail when one party calls into question something that's totally irrelevant to the argument at hand.

An argument also begins to fail when one party fails to back up his claims. Where's the 70% of the Tribes community you were going on about?

Yes, T2 sold more copies. So? It was the greatest burn of 2001 and knocked the wind out of the franchise. I could sell a billion defective cars with fifty "quality" options and consider it an economic success, but once I try to sell a new type of car I probably won't be as successful in the sales category. However, the new car could be the smoothest drive this side of the Pacific and not get the recognition it deserves due to my previous mechanical failure.

I would remind you that at one time T2 was at the price that T:V is now. Outdated models are always cheaper than the new.

As for features, three words: Motorized Tie Rack.

IMHO, T2 was much more balanced than T:V.
Much less cartoonish also, and the classes looked much better as far as definition goes.
Heck, Torque was a custom engine put together over 6 years ago. Since than we've gone from K6 to Opteron. What progress in CPU tech!
Seems software is not able to make the same kind of advances since you wish to compare the two.
Well, consider T2 ran on those old K5/K6/Celeron/P2 systems with flucky VIA chipsets.

How would the Lexus comunity feel if the 2006 Lexus came with improved engin performance and stability and a beautiful look with a few unimportant features removed like.

Electic windows and locks
Air conditioning.
No GPS
No CD player or good sound system.
No trunk (hardly ever used anyway)

I think they might say, why?

Many would try to find out why they decided to make those changes.

Response from Lexus- Noone ever used that stuff anyway.

Previous Lexus owers would probably first ask the company to reconsider. Then they may look to other venders to see if they can add them. Finally they decide to turn thier back on Lexus and buy something else.

Caution to the wind?
Its not like they were doing something innovative that had not been done before. They were just following the path that GG defined so well. IG didn't add anything new to the game, unless you think the grappler is something new.

We're not speaking of "all game". We are talking tribes and what makes Tribes the greatest game ever made.
Please do tell then, what makes Tribes 2 so great that is missing from T:V?

Before you say "FEATUREZZZ!!", I'd like to point out that to the occasional player or pubber (read: the majority) a number of items was indeed useless (this goes for T1 too btw). Maybe if you played the game for a year and a half, you start to realize how all the bits and pieces can be used in conjunction with each other to form something useful, but that is not what an FPS is about. An FPS (being an action game) is about every single item being useful on its own.

With that in mind, what is in T1 and T2 that is missing from T:V and is essential to make a good Tribes game?

And if you keep accepting a bunch of random features with no additional thought or balancing, chances are it's not even a playable game what you get next time.

None of T2 features were random. Only your thoughts are.

An FPS (being an action game) is about every single item being useful on its own.

[/i] to make a good Tribes game?

Maybe this is a truth in other games like UT and Quake, but this ain't either. This is Tribes and Tribes have store room full of stuff that may become useful at certain times.
If all you want is to see how fast you can ski and rape a base then I guess this game is for you. Personally, I get bored real quick after raping a base ten times in 5 minutes.

How would the Lexus comunity feel if the 2006 Lexus came with improved engin performance and stability and a beautiful look with a few unimportant features removed like.

Electic windows and locks
Air conditioning.
No GPS
No CD player or good sound system.
No trunk (hardly ever used anyway)

I think they might say, why?

Many would try to find out why they decided to make those changes.

Response from Lexus- Noone ever used that stuff anyway.

Previous Lexus owers would probably first ask the company to reconsider. Then they may look to other venders to see if they can add them. Finally they decide to turn thier back on Lexus and buy something else.
But if company X removes the extra cage for the pig, the crosshairs from the front of the car to help running people over, and the built-in blowtorch from their latest model, you're only going to have pig owners, maniac roadkillers and do-it-yourself engineers complaining, while the rest of the customers will be relieved that they no longer have to care about those features that they didn't use anyway.

This is Tribes and Tribes have store room full of stuff that may become useful at certain times.
Question: why not have fewer items that become useful almost anytime instead?

IMHO, T2 was much more balanced than T:V.
Much less cartoonish also, and the classes looked much better as far as definition goes.
Heck, Torque was a custom engine put together over 6 years ago. Since than we've gone from K6 to Opteron. What progress in CPU tech!
Seems software is not able to make the same kind of advances since you wish to compare the two.
Well, consider T2 ran on those old K5/K6/Celeron/P2 systems with flucky VIA chipsets.

Base T2 was imbalanced toward the defense, Classic T2 heavily toward the offense.

Your "fact" that models looked better in T2 is laughable at best. You've gone from factual to subjective.

Funny that Torque was made six years ago, because when T2 shipped it was half-finished and riddled with hooks and holes.

And I suppose it's supposed to be a huge surprise that a game released in 2001 can run on lower system specs than one in 2003? And "ran" might be a little generous in the early stages.


EDIT: Tarjan, PM. :P

I've said it before and I'll say it again - the game was completed by us exactly to our long-established schedule....

Did you forget that most of us have this game you claim is completed?

The most rabid of Tribes VENGEANCE fans are leaving the game, because its not done.

Retail copies of tribes games purchased by me:

Tribes: 4, plus influenced probably 6-8 friends to purchase.

Tribes2: 2, +3 friends

Tribes:Vengeance: 1, and none.

T1 was the basis which all titles in the series should "build" upon. Things like how packs work etc. should not stray from the original successful methods. Yes you can "add" new things to the titles but you shouldn't change from the fundamental workings of the original. Changing things so that they become more efficient without changing how they worked before is the best bet (if you want to change anything).

Now while I think T:V is a good game in it's own rights, it is not a game I would play and I do not consider it true to the original. Tribes originally was intended to be a large scale futuristic war-game, not Tony Hawk on ice. This is not to say I agree with the base T2/T1 base plus slower makes better decisions, but the scale, feel and worlds were still proper.

Thats the point.
I brought T1 twice, T2 3 times, and T:V, I got for free from a friend who brought and thought it was UT crap.
These clowns are defending a game that failed to hit its mark in an embarrassing fashion. Not only did it miss, but they also manged to drive away customers that have waited years to buy the game. What losers.
At this point, the game is not fixable. Its modible to allow some longevity so it won't burn out in a couple months, but too hosed to approach the greatness of the other two titles.

Nod to ZOD.

Then again, on the flip-side, I HATED T2 Classic (boy, I'm likely to get nailed for that). No offence to you, ZOD, you do good work and it was what a lot of people were crying for, BUT I liked how teamwork and transportation were actually important factors before classic. After classic the transport was worthless.

If you want to talk about remaining "ture" to the original, you have to remeber that skiing at all was a bug and that getting heavies to the enemy base was supposed to take some work. T2's speedcaps were an attempt to remain true to THAT original consept and people generally hated it.

It's hard to be true to anything when the fans aren't even true to themselves.

ZOD states what I feel also.
I agree T:V is a good game. Just not "traditional" tribes. Thats not a bad thing, unless they are attempting to remold Tribes into this new thing which would be a huge loss for Tribers.

ZOD, would you know if GG is legally barred from doing another Tribes game due to the old competitive clause? Or do they just lack opportunity (meaning funding)?

Nod to ZOD.

Then again, on the flip-side, I HATED T2 Classic (boy, I'm likely to get nailed for that). No offence to you, ZOD, you do good work and it was what a lot of people were crying for, BUT I liked how teamwork and transportation were actually important factors before classic. After classic the transport was worthless.

If you want to talk about remaining "ture" to the original, you have to remeber that skiing at all was a bug and that getting heavies to the enemy base was supposed to take some work. T2's speedcaps were an attempt to remain true to THAT original consept and people generally hated it.

It's hard to be true to anything when the fans aren't even true to themselves.

There were things I disliked about Classic as well. I thought it was to easy to ski, thought mine disking was un-necessary and stupid, thought locking missiles were stupid and limited grenade use to flares. Vehicles could have used a bit more tweaking. But, I still preferred it 10 fold to base T2.

ZOD states what I feel also.
I agree T:V is a good game. Just not "traditional" tribes. Thats not a bad thing, unless they are attempting to remold Tribes into this new thing which would be a huge loss for Tribers.

ZOD, would you know if GG is legally barred from doing another Tribes game due to the old competitive clause? Or do they just lack opportunity (meaning funding)?

They don't have the time or the legal ability to work on a Tribes game. Plus I doubt very much they want anything to do with VUG aside from possibly kicking one of their exec's in the nutz.