Remember when coke changed it's formula?

More features is ALWAYS a good thing. If you don't want them don't use them. At least you have the choice.
Better to have too much than too little.

Perhaps the T2 equipment was not used by yourself and ten others, but many, many others did find them useful and they are stating that by not buying this new game that insists its Tribes on name alone.
What's the point in spending resources on something that is not going to be used?


Also, people who aren't familiar with the game or the series are likely to get confused and frustrated if they have to spend time picking out the few useful items from the tons of junk.

The proof is in the numbers, and numbers don't lie. It seems Tribers have spoken. The only saving hope is that T:V can pull in new blood from the UT crowd to replace lost sales.
Yes, the Tribers have spoken. About 6-800 people like T:V base. Mods will bring in at least twice as many people.

Those people are prime candidates for "Tribes" lite.
Or if not available, they could go play UT

Depends on what you call 'lite'.


Compared to T2, T:V is Tribes 'lite'.

But to the T1 Paintball mod (one of my personal favorites) it's like T1 is to CS.

Yes, the Tribers have spoken. About 6-800 people like T:V base. Mods will bring in at least twice as many people.

800 people is what small fration of Tribes?
Considering that at least 70% of them are newbies from UT who cares.

A game that counts on modders is professed to be lacking.
I wish the modders the best of luck. I believe they will need it. It's a shame to spend alot of time beefing up a flawed product with less than 1000 players.
Plus with the stupid decisions IG hardcoded into the game, it greatly limits what enhancements modders can accomplish.

Looks like the only hope for saving Tribes is if GG gets another chance down the road.

Considering that at least 70% of them are newbies from UT who cares.


Did you make that percentage up on the spot, or do you have a link where I can see this stat?

This is TW. What do you think?

A game that counts on modders is professed to be lacking.
That's really funny coming from a T2 fanboy. Where do you think T2 would be if it wasn't for base++ or classic? Do you think any more T1 vets would play it than as much T2 vets are playing T:V?
Plus with the stupid decisions IG hardcoded into the game, it greatly limits what enhancements modders can accomplish.
You seem to be very familiar with T:V's code. Why don't you mention some of these 'stupid decisions IG hardcoded into the game'? Just wondering, because I hear that the UT engine is very flexible, and so is the Vengeance engine.

Cute, but unfortuantely half thought and unrealistic.
Features equate to value. Lack of the same equate to less value.
People purchase Lexus's less for the "feel" and more for the "value". The feel is an extra that comes with "quality".
If one takes a top end Lexus, strips out the high end features, than what you have is a subset of the original with less features, and less value.
Cars have lane change blinkers that half the drivers don't use. Thats no reason for auto manufacturers to remove blinkers cause some motorists can't think enough to actually use them.
Progress is shown by building in more features while making those features easier to access. Removing features is a backwards step towards lower value products.

So a Lambroughini Countach is of less value simply because it chooses to excel in a certain area over giving you a cupholder or a cargo net for your groceries? By your logic Linux is worse than Windows due to the fact that it doesn't come out of the box loaded with features. Also, a fatty steak is worth more than a lean cut because it takes up more space on the plate.

Quality by your definition is simply dumping extras into something without thinking of the implications of employing them. It's your sort of thinking that made T2 the train wreck that it was. The mindset of "more, more, more" without optimisation is pretty much what's wrong with business today.

By the way you're talking, you could have upwards of 10 guns that are functionally the same, but as long as they're there it's "value".

800 people is what small fration of Tribes?
Considering that at least 70% of them are newbies from UT who cares.

A game that counts on modders is professed to be lacking.
I wish the modders the best of luck. I believe they will need it. It's a shame to spend alot of time beefing up a flawed product with less than 1000 players.
Plus with the stupid decisions IG hardcoded into the game, it greatly limits what enhancements modders can accomplish.

Looks like the only hope for saving Tribes is if GG gets another chance down the road.

Wow, you went from having a good argument to blathering T2 fanboy with this statement.

"Newbies from UT"? Let's see some hard numbers. If you are incapable or unwilling to poll T:V players on their gaming habits, then this is nothing but the same kind of lashing out we've seen a million times before. It's been done better as well.

"Hardcoded Limitations"? You ARE aware of SS:2485 right? It adds player and weapon models, changes physics, and just about everything else. Where are your limitations? Yes, it's true that not just anyone can open up Notepad and crank out an automissile.cs, but just because the tools are different and more advanced doesn't mean there's a lack of functionality.

"Flawed product"? Minute bugs such as these don't compare to the catastrophic UEs of T2.

That's really funny coming from a T2 fanboy. Where do you think T2 would be if it wasn't for base++ or classic? Do you think any more T1 vets would play it than as much T2 vets are playing T:V?

You seem to be very familiar with T:V's code. Why don't you mention some of these 'stupid decisions IG hardcoded into the game'? Just wondering, because I hear that the UT engine is very flexible, and so is the Vengeance engine.

T2 was released over 6 years ago. Has gaming not made better progress since than?

Are the map boundies and ceiling not limited?

"Flawed product"? Minute bugs such as these don't compare to the catastrophic UEs of T2.

In my book, less is never better, unless you're talking about debt.
Surely, if you build something with 2000 parts it will be more prone to error/failure compared to something with 900 parts, and for obvious reasons.

T2 was released over 6 years ago. Has gaming not made better progress since than?
28-03-2001, the release date of T2 was not over 6 years ago.

And how does the evolution of gaming enter into this? Game development, maybe, but it's not the gamers' fault if the designers fail to balance their game.

Are the map boundies and ceiling not limited?
Did IG code that in?


No.

In my book, less is never better, unless you're talking about debt.
Surely, if you build something with 2000 parts it will be more prone to error/failure compared to something with 900 parts, and for obvious reasons.
A useless feature is a debt: you wasted precious development hours for practically nothing.


Thanks for proving yourself wrong.

Cinder, check your PM's please.

Features I used every day playing tribes 2 that are considered useless by some which were not included in TV.

Comand Map way points
Waypoints (Vehicle station and other stretegic targets).
Waypoint teammates (to find them for coordinated action after separation)
Flares
Sensor Jammer
Rocket Launcher
Out of bounds
Motion Sensors
Turrets deployable from remote inventory stations
Mines from remote inventory stations
Personal Mines
Cloaking pack
MPB (for antiaircraft, motion detection and inventory station.
Targeting Laser

A game that counts on modders is professed to be lacking.


Hasn't this arguement been squashed for all of eternity? COUNTER STRIKE (http://www.counter-strike.net/). I'm pretty sure Half-Life 2 was developed almost exclusively with the CS:S crowd in mind. But yeah Tribes 2 pretty much relied on Classic to keep it going, as well. This thread is not about this thread being stupid.

In my book, less is never better, unless you're talking about debt.
Surely, if you build something with 2000 parts it will be more prone to error/failure compared to something with 900 parts, and for obvious reasons.

So, instead of introducing a stable platform of 900 parts with capability to sustain many more parts and elements, they should throw caution to the wind and risk an unstable platform with 2000 parts? Sounds like bad business practices to me.


Are the map boundies and ceiling not limited?


All games have boundaries, period. The Torque engine circumvented this by introducing a method to make a heightmap tile and keep its collision properties. However, beyond a certain point in the map you couldn't place anything.

The game environments on the Vengeance engine can be as large as one could ever possibly need.

Cinder, check your PM's please.

Trajan, turn on AIM. ;)

A useless feature is a debt: you wasted precious development hours for practically nothing.


Thanks for proving yourself wrong.

Spoken like someone who gets owned in T2.
Features are never useless. Maybe to one person, but one person does not make the game. There are more true Tribers still waiting to buy what they expect in the next Tribes installment than there are T:V'ers. The proof is in the number sold, and number of players on mp. Delude urself if you'd like.

Bottom line is, I paid less for T2 for more features than T:V is asking for less features. If you support and allow this trend to continue, don't be surprised if next time you receive even less at an even greater charge.
It called being a responsible consumer and not a chump.