Is there a speed cheat out?

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Justice
09-28-2004, 06:53 PM
Forget the IP bans, we can ban by CD-key in the full version. Unless they want to shell out $50 every time they're banned, they can't cause too much trouble.

One word: Keygen.

Two words: Stolen Keys

Three words: Legit user screwed

Banning by cd-key only works when you're certain the key belongs to the person responsible. Do not doubt that there'll be a third party key generator, probably before the game hits the shelves. Yes, the keys are unique for each copy, and yes, at least I hope, they track sold keys so false ones won't work, however, this also means that when a keygen hits a legit key, chances are it belongs to someone who recently shelled out $50 for it. Meaning, hold onto your receipts and be prepared for a nightmare.

The truth of the matter is, because this engine was chosen, all the existing knowledge of how to hack this engine can now be leveraged to screw T:V over. Someone above said it succintly, but I'll elaborate: Why pay money to play a game where those who steal are going to cheat as well, and they can succeed because the authors chose, either through ignorance or with no regard for the problems involved, to use an easily exploitable engine? Because you have no choice? Hardly.

I hope that they've done something magical and fixed the glaring holes, holes that have been exploited for YEARS for god's sake. I pray they've improved server side security to the point of raving paranoia and fixed all the cheat protection, especially with the absolutely mind boggling requirement that the server be a Windows box (I mean, who in their deranged omnipotence thought that that was a GOOD idea??) but I doubt it. They want a game to ship, and cheating, which will destroy this game in three months, probably took a backseat to bug squashing (except where a bug and a cheat were one and the same).

Seriously, consider this:

Tribes 1 is all but dead. The RAMPANT cheating in the game, with no possiblity for prevention, resulted in a mass exodus to tribes 2 the moment it came out (UE's included). Sure, there's some die-hard players still out there, and I bet some of them don't even cheat and just accept philosophically that it's going to happen and they can't do anything about it. Personally I'd play something else first. The only reason to play tribes is to compete, with cheats, competition is pointless.

Tribes 2 is dying. The community dwindled away as those who had passion for the game got fed up with all the cheats (not to mention the bugs). Skin hacks, auto aim, waypoints, happymod, etc. It killed the game. Like t1 above, there's still some who play, but even when it DIDN'T work t2 had thousands of servers and tens of thousands of players AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT, now servers number in the hundreds if that and on a good day there might be 1500 people playing.

Even so, given the dire straights these two once great first person shooters are in, I'd take them over what I've seen people do in this beta. Invulnerability/Invisibility, Auto-Aim, Anti-Fog, Teleportation/Speed hacks, Weapon speed hacks, no-reg hacks, no name hacks, etc.

And what is the word on these cheats? Well, just like t2, security through obscurity. I'm sure at least some of you know how well THAT works. That is to say, not at all. No official word on: We've fixed them all, we fixed some of them, we're TRYING to fix them, nothing. Nothing, for example, about making the server verify all physics involved, so speed hacks, weapon hacks, invulnerability, way point hacks (radar) etc are no longer possible. How's that? Simply put, the server only sends you data for things you can see, wall hacks don't work, because the server can tell if there's a wall there and doesn't send you any bloody data if there is! OMG, what a concept! And if the client says, hey, I'm in motion, and my direction is this, my speed is this, the server can check. If something doesn't match, BEEP, you're booted and banned and a log of the event is made. Sure, it'd be a pain in the ass to do, I don't doubt, and yes, it might require a frigging crey to host the server (frankly a better choice than a WINDOWS BOX(?!?!)), but it hasn't been done that I know of, and probably won't be done because it's beyond the scope of this project. At least, that's what some posters here would have us believe. I beg to differ. I suggest that perhaps, just perhaps, the prevention of cheating is the single most important aspect of this, or any other fps, and should be paramount.

Of course, if all these things are addressed, have been addressed, or will be addressed shortly after boxes hit the shelves, and I'm wrong, well, I'd be ecstatic to discover my fears are groundless and would humbly proffer my abject apology to all and sundry.

But I'm not holding my breath.

In summary: I fear T:V will be neat, and popular, and fun, for a little while, and then it's going to die.

MikSchultzy
09-28-2004, 07:00 PM
Erm, wouldn't the speed-hack prevention put a cap on, or restrict skiing?

Terr
09-28-2004, 07:02 PM
What amazes me about all of this is the shazbottiness of an engine that allows the client to be authoritive about it's position, and movement speeds.

WTF? Damn. And here I was thinking that there was some nice server-authoritative architecture going on.

Hurricane Harold
09-28-2004, 07:03 PM
Etc, etc, etc...... In summary: I fear T:V will be neat, and popular, and fun, for a little while, and then it's going to die.
I've played and had fun with UT2004, despite the apparant prevalence of cheats for it. Cheats like this will also be possible to spot in competition. So: no.

MikSchultzy
09-28-2004, 07:05 PM
All this talk about cheats is making baby jesus cry.

I've gotta agree though, some of you say T:V will have a relativly short life... I can see that being true, for the most part.

I feel that the game will loose alot of people to various things, and it'll turn out to be like T2 was in it's "Last Days" (RE: Rougly the last year or so).

Justice
09-28-2004, 07:07 PM
I've played and had fun with UT2004, despite the apparant prevalence of cheats for it. Cheats like this will also be possible to spot in competition. So: no.

Anything is possible. You just contradicted yourself, and therefore your opinion, while appreciated, is foolish.

I hope it proves to be true.

Hurricane Harold
09-28-2004, 07:09 PM
Anything is possible. You just contradicted yourself, and therefore your opinion, while appreciated, is foolish.
I contradicted myself... where? In saying that I have fun in a cheat-ridden game? By saying that cheats like speedhacks will be possible to spot and ban in competition? These are contradictions? Maybe I'm not thinking straight, but I don't get it.

Justice
09-28-2004, 07:23 PM
I contradicted myself... where? In saying that I have fun in a cheat-ridden game? By saying that cheats like speedhacks will be possible to spot and ban in competition? These are contradictions? Maybe I'm not thinking straight, but I don't get it.

Anything is possible and No don't work together in the same argument. If it's possible, then you can only say, I don't think so, or I think you're wrong. Anything is possible is tantamount to saying "maybe." Not to mention you're reasons, since I assume that those you provided are meant to support your opinion, don't really have much substance to them. I've got demos of t1 matches where the result was contested simply because one team thought the other was cheating, resulting in weeks of delays while screen shots and recordings were passed around. I've got the same thing for t2, and I even have some of the email from various ladder admins when dealing with these disputes. Surely cheats are possible to spot, but proving a cheat is an entirely different matter, and history has proven that the authorities tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the accused, after all, innocent until proven guilty. Furthermore, since human nature tends towards extremes when upset, who is to say that someone caught cheating wasn't actually just playing well? This is a gray area, and the only certainty we have lies within the providence of the devs. I worry that they take the issue to lightly. Without their assurance that all that is possible has been done, and an explaination of the steps taken, our only recourse as players of this game is to assume that somewhere someone is cheating, and that opens the door to all the same issues that brought t1 and then t2 to their respective knees.

Yogi
09-28-2004, 07:50 PM
These myg0t guys sound like perfect candidates for a little narc opp.
If you run a server and catch one of these guys cheating, get their IP from the logs and trace 'em. Report them to their ISP for server abuse. Believe it or not game servers, espcially those hosted by companies, quallify as just being servers. Almost every ISP makes you sign a EULA that includes text to the effect of "I shalt not abuse servers".
If the cheater twit already happens to have come complaints filed on him, you can get his arse unplugged!

In this particular case, you could also go to the host of their website. It sounds like they are on thin ice anyway.
I want to set up a community blacklist of IPs and GUIDs and maybe even set up a mutator that keeps blacklisted people off of servers running it.

BitRaiser
09-28-2004, 08:42 PM
I want to set up a community blacklist of IPs and GUIDs and maybe even set up a mutator that keeps blacklisted people off of servers running it.

Could be a good idea, but ya gotta watch it with any sort of blacklist. The people it's trying to target will try their damnedest to turn it around on ya. For example, someone WILL back hack your mutator and set it up to ban people that aren't cheating, filling your list with invalid information.

The other thing is you've got to be damned clear on what consitutes a black listable offence. Speed hacking? Granted. What about HUDing? Or enhanced Radars? IFF hacks? Turtling or O sniping? You see where I'm going with this...

Good idea, but needs to be thought about very carfully!

mrcheesy
09-28-2004, 08:51 PM
I want to set up a community blacklist of IPs and GUIDs and maybe even set up a mutator that keeps blacklisted people off of servers running it.
great idea - with a bit of work it'd be a welcome help at least

ZenTseTse
09-28-2004, 08:57 PM
Not really, Unreal Engine based games are plagued with this type of shazbot. It's hardly that effective though, more just a novelty used to annoy people.

damn, all you do is talk smack and flame people

show me a video of you doing this in ut2k4.

thanks.

ZenTseTse
09-28-2004, 08:58 PM
I want to set up a community blacklist of IPs and GUIDs and maybe even set up a mutator that keeps blacklisted people off of servers running it.

:signed:

master server bans are the Way of the Future

ruready
09-28-2004, 09:55 PM
damn, all you do is talk smack and flame people

show me a video of you doing this in ut2k4.

thanks.

I tend to respond to people how they respond to me. I'm growing quite tired of Amadeu5 questioning me all the time with ill logic and nothing to back it anyways, get's old man.

And the comment about Unreal Engine based games was a very general statement, if you can prove it doesn't apply to most Unreal Engine based games, please do. I don't have enough HD space to install ut2k4, nor would I even bother if I did.

Here's some vids of T:V speedhack at diff speeds, even though I consider it a novelty, I did manage to make one successful cap during the vid. With some practice at a slightly increased speed you'd probably be unstoppable.

TVSpeedhack (http://nofix.annihilation.info/images/TVSpeedhack.wmv)
TVSpeedhackFaster (http://nofix.annihilation.info/images/TVSpeedhackFaster.wmv)
TVSpeedhackEvenFaster (http://nofix.annihilation.info/images/TVSpeedhackEvenFaster.wmv )
TVSpeedhackEvenMoreFaster (http://nofix.annihilation.info/images/TVSpeedhackEvenMoreFaster .wmv)

Opter
09-28-2004, 10:03 PM
sorry but the one i use can go 100x faster than that

www.myg0t.com

WaTTz!
09-28-2004, 10:04 PM
sorry but the one i use can go 100x faster than that

www.myg0t.com

Of course it can.

But if you tried to go that fast you're not going to be able to tell where you're going lol.

Opter
09-28-2004, 10:06 PM
actually i can plus mines dont kill me since i go to fast and i can outrun turrets and destroy an entire base in seconds

myg0t bitches, we own everything

www.myg0t.com

ruready
09-28-2004, 10:06 PM
sorry but the one i use can go 100x faster than that

www.myg0t.com

Yes, it can be much faster but then you lose all control, which makes it pointless.

And you really didn't see how fast I was going anyways, recording with fraps + playing at the same time + nofog kills my box. Point was only to demonstrate the possibilities.

FantasticDamage
09-28-2004, 10:07 PM
I tend to respond to people how they respond to me. I'm growing quite tired of Amadeu5 questioning me all the time with ill logic and nothing to back it anyways, get's old man.

And the comment about Unreal Engine based games was a very general statement, if you can prove it doesn't apply to most Unreal Engine based games, please do. I don't have enough HD space to install ut2k4, nor would I even bother if I did.

Here's some vids of T:V speedhack at diff speeds, even though I consider it a novelty, I did manage to make one successful cap during the vid. With some practice at a slightly increased speed you'd probably be unstoppable.

TVSpeedhack (http://nofix.annihilation.info/images/TVSpeedhack.wmv)
TVSpeedhackFaster (http://nofix.annihilation.info/images/TVSpeedhackFaster.wmv)
TVSpeedhackEvenFaster (http://nofix.annihilation.info/images/TVSpeedhackEvenFaster.wmv )
TVSpeedhackEvenMoreFaster (http://nofix.annihilation.info/images/TVSpeedhackEvenMoreFaster .wmv)

Hahaha, looks exactly like the speedhack I tried for CS back in 2000 on my freshman year dorm's closed network. You should try breaking out the energy blade and catching some sucker kills, that was the best part about the speed hack back then. It was fun till I had almost half the dorm's worth of angry CS players knocking at my door. This was back when CS was actually fun.

To everyone else: this speedhack isn't some mystical hack, it's just a simple program that speeds up your system clock (yes, the one that counts away the minutes of your long work day in the lower right corner) for any game that looks to it for direction. By the time I was out of the dorms in summer 2000, Valve had already found protection for this hack, so I doubt it'll be too long before Irrational does as well.

Opter
09-28-2004, 10:08 PM
actually u dont have to believe me but i dont care i know what i got and it works

i can cap the flag in heavy armor no prob just running on the ground

im about to head into sum servers right now 9 pm central time [myg0t]Opter ill be in populated servers but they will clear out